Who's next?

[Bird on a Fire]

This is getting to be another big mess. Given all the warnings over the last five years about how voting Labour would lead to economic collapse, I find it absolutely hilarious that the Tories doing exactly what they've always wanted to managed to collapse the economy overnight.

What is it about right-wingers and projecting?

[TimW]

BREAKING NEWS: Truss still PM.

[TopBadger]

BREAKING NEWS: Truss still PM.

Well, I lolled at that.

Saw a headline that she'll lead the party until the next election... when every man and his dog is wondering if she'll make it to the next weekend. How long will the Tory party let her occupy no 10? That seems to be her only function now.

[Grumble]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

[bjn]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

Polling I saw said Tory party members would now vote 60/40 if the Sunak/Truss race was run again. So 40% are still totally batshit

[Woodchopper]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

Will be interesting to see whether there is actually a split in the Tory Party. I expect that Nigel Farage would be happy to lead the Batshit Tory Splinter Fraction.

[Gfamily]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

Almost a metaphor for Brexit

[Little waster]

BREAKING NEWS: Truss still PM.

Well, I lolled at that.

Saw a headline that she'll lead the party until the next election... when every man and his dog is wondering if she'll make it to the next weekend. How long will the Tory party let her occupy no 10? That seems to be her only function now.

It's still touch and go whether she'll outlast the Star's "Let-truss".

The BBC interviewer shouldn't have bothered asking her if she'll last to the next election but instead have started listing supermarket products in order of longevity and asking where she saw her career as PM fitting in.

"So Prime Minister, the choice is now between a pack of pork pies left on a radiator, a bruised peach next to some bananas and half a bottle of milk left in a work cupboard after someone has taken a big swig from the bottle, the vile tw.t."

[bjn]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

Will be interesting to see whether there is actually a split in the Tory Party. I expect that Nigel Farage would be happy to lead the Batshit Tory Splinter Fraction.

You could argue that the Tory party is well down that path already, with the saner elements like Rory Stewart and the like no longer members. It's close to being a rump kipper/libertarian party.

[Woodchopper]

If I was a member and had voted for her then the parliamentary party had stripped her of all powers and reversed essentially everything that she promised I might be a bit cross with the tories right now.

The things she promised were bat sh.t, but she did deliver the things she promised to enact to the membership. Now the members have to be persuaded that they were at fault, effectively.

Will be interesting to see whether there is actually a split in the Tory Party. I expect that Nigel Farage would be happy to lead the Batshit Tory Splinter Fraction.

You could argue that the Tory party is well down that path already, with the saner elements like Rory Stewart and the like no longer members. It's close to being a rump kipper/libertarian party.

Yes, but Stewart and others didn't actually set up the non-Bonkers Tory Party to compete with the Kipper Tory Party.

[dyqik]

Will be interesting to see whether there is actually a split in the Tory Party. I expect that Nigel Farage would be happy to lead the Batshit Tory Splinter Fraction.

You could argue that the Tory party is well down that path already, with the saner elements like Rory Stewart and the like no longer members. It's close to being a rump kipper/libertarian party.

You can't argue that it's a libertarian party while Braverman, Patel, etc. are in it and banning protest. It's a fascist party while they are in it.

It's a rump kleptocratic oligarchy/fascist party, akin to Putin's Russia. The only reason the donors supported Brexit was to allow more extraction of money through corruption than the EU would allow, and it's necessary for them to suppress dissent while they do so.

[FlammableFlower]

Truss in particular, but the Tories in general, seem to be bouncing between "we've got a mandate, and we really are sticking to what we promised" to "nope, we're doing this now". How will that sit with the members? Particularly given the general demographic and the abandonment of the pension triple lock which is definitely the opposite of what's in their manifesto and Truss was supporting it only the other week.

[bjn]

Will be interesting to see whether there is actually a split in the Tory Party. I expect that Nigel Farage would be happy to lead the Batshit Tory Splinter Fraction.

You could argue that the Tory party is well down that path already, with the saner elements like Rory Stewart and the like no longer members. It's close to being a rump kipper/libertarian party.

You can't argue that it's a libertarian party while Braverman, Patel, etc. are in it and banning protest. It's a fascist party while they are in it.

It's a rump kleptocratic oligarchy/fascist party, akin to Putin's Russia. The only reason the donors supported Brexit was to allow more extraction of money through corruption than the EU would allow, and it's necessary for them to suppress dissent while they do so.

IME, most 'libertarians' aren't. More of the 'state minimalism for me, but not for thee' types. Theil etc...

[monkey]

Truss in particular, but the Tories in general, seem to be bouncing between "we've got a mandate, and we really are sticking to what we promised" to "nope, we're doing this now". How will that sit with the members? Particularly given the general demographic and the abandonment of the pension triple lock which is definitely the opposite of what's in their manifesto and Truss was supporting it only the other week.

Most Tory members think that Truss should quit - clicky. This was before (maybe) abandoning the triple lock.

Also in there, they don't seem to mind not having a vote on the next leader. And Johnson is their favourite.

[IvanV]

Most Tory members think that Truss should quit - clicky. ...
And Johnson is their favourite.

Even though almost 40% of those who voted for Truss think she should resign, it's not that surprising. They haven't necessarily changed their mind. Probably they never wanted her. They just weren't offered their favourite candidate, ie Johnson.

So almost half of the Tory membership are sufficiently batshit their first choice for leader remains Johnson, even though he is now clearly electoral bad news and unacceptable to the parliamentary party. If they have another leadership election, Johnson can stand, at least so far as we can tell from the Schedule 3 of the Conservative Party Constitution, the small part of their election rules that is in the public domain. But he'd have to get enough Tory MPs to vote for him to be offered to the membership. That's probably unlikely at this point. Or is it?

Potential strong or sensible options for leader of the conservative party have had difficulty getting elected as leader, or sometimes even getting very far in the election, because such strong and sensible candidates are generally detested by at least half the party. In fact, often they don't even bother standing because they know they have no chance. Or perhaps because it's no fun being a sensible conservative leader and getting attacked at every point by the batshit right.

Examples of the difficulty of relatively sensible leaders getting elected include John Major (beating Hurd and Heseltine), Duncan Smith (beating Clarke), Howard (unopposed - the alternatives didn't even bother), May (sensible candidates again didn't bother) and Johnson (beating *unt). And maybe relatively sensible candidates would in any case like to wait until after the next general election, when they can replace whoever lost it. And potentially keep themselves a bit further disassociated from the mess of the last few years of Tory government. Or maybe having seen the membership prefer Truss over Sunak, and Johnson over *unt, the relatively sensible may now think that they will always lose in the end to a populist, under the current election rules.

[jimbob]

Of course the standards and privileges committee are still investigating Johnson and might end up with him suspended from Parliament and subject to a recall election

[lpm]

They also need to consider their odds of remaining an MP in 2024. It's not as simple as waiting for Truss to lose, becoming Leader of the Opposition and hoping to be PM in 2029.

[Trinucleus]

Most Tory members think that Truss should quit - clicky. ...
And Johnson is their favourite.

Even though almost 40% of those who voted for Truss think she should resign, it's not that surprising. They haven't necessarily changed their mind. Probably they never wanted her. They just weren't offered their favourite candidate, ie Johnson.

So almost half of the Tory membership are sufficiently batshit their first choice for leader remains Johnson, even though he is now clearly electoral bad news and unacceptable to the parliamentary party. If they have another leadership election, Johnson can stand, at least so far as we can tell from the Schedule 3 of the Conservative Party Constitution, the small part of their election rules that is in the public domain. But he'd have to get enough Tory MPs to vote for him to be offered to the membership. That's probably unlikely at this point. Or is it?

Potential strong or sensible options for leader of the conservative party have had difficulty getting elected as leader, or sometimes even getting very far in the election, because such strong and sensible candidates are generally detested by at least half the party. In fact, often they don't even bother standing because they know they have no chance. Or perhaps because it's no fun being a sensible conservative leader and getting attacked at every point by the batshit right.

Examples of the difficulty of relatively sensible leaders getting elected include John Major (beating Hurd and Heseltine), Duncan Smith (beating Clarke), Howard (unopposed - the alternatives didn't even bother), May (sensible candidates again didn't bother) and Johnson (beating *unt). And maybe relatively sensible candidates would in any case like to wait until after the next general election, when they can replace whoever lost it. And potentially keep themselves a bit further disassociated from the mess of the last few years of Tory government. Or maybe having seen the membership prefer Truss over Sunak, and Johnson over *unt, the relatively sensible may now think that they will always lose in the end to a populist, under the current election rules.

But the sensible candidates also have to battle against the Tory papers - just as we've seen this time round

[monkey]

Haha.

Gove thought he was off the record.

Michael Gove believes it is a matter of when not if Liz Truss is removed as prime minister.

The former cabinet minister, who backed Rishi Sunak in the summer, also warned Britons to expect “a hell of a lot of pain in the next two months” due to the economic situation.

At a private event Gove was asked whether it was “no longer a question of whether Truss goes, but when she goes,” Gove agreed that was “absolutely right”.

He added: “The question for any leader is what happens when the programme or the platform on which you secured the leadership has been shredded.”

In remarks first reported by The Guardian, the former education secretary said when Truss was a junior minister at that department he had been her boss — “a role which is now a jobshare between Jeremy Hunt and the bond markets”.

Gove suggested that Sir Keir Starmer’s first question at prime minister’s questions tomorrow could be: “Why?”

Gove told The Guardian that the comments had been made under the Chatham House rule.

clicky

[jimbob]

Prince Andrew has a higher approval rating (11%) than Truss (10%)

https://www.newsweek.com/prince-andrew- ... is-1752745

[dyqik]

So she's really going to stay in post long enough to get to PM's questions tomorrow?

[lpm]

Last week she only got through it by bragging about her 2 year energy subsidies in response to every question.

Don't know what she'll try this time. "We care about stability and we're ever so brave to u-turn"?

[plodder]

Looks like it. Pretty amazing really.

I’m loving this idea that Tory party members don’t know how to pick winning leaders. Not exactly backed up by the election results over the past century or so.

[jimbob]

Looks like it. Pretty amazing really.

I’m loving this idea that Tory party members don’t know how to pick winning leaders. Not exactly backed up by the election results over the past century or so.

They also picked IDS

[monkey]

So she's really going to stay in post long enough to get to PM's questions tomorrow?

I hope so, I don't want to be asleep for the resignation speech and miss it. About 2 o'clock GMT before work starts, or 6 or 7 for my lunchtime would suit me, if that's OK.

Be a pretty weird PMQs if she'd just resigned. She'd still be PM until the replacement does the going to meet the king bit wouldn't she? So still expected to turn up, if she can? (I suppose heading off to see old big ears to hand in your resignation is a pretty good excuse to get Penny Mordaunt to cover for you).