FTX
Re: FTX
What we have now is bad, crypto is way way worse and can fix non of the existing financial system has. The entire point of it is to get around any constraints we currently have. So all the bad things we have now, cranked up to 11 with a whole extra load of badness ontop.
Re: FTX
LPM: DIET COKE IS A SCAMlpm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:23 pmPlodder: You should drink your own urine.
LPM: What the f.ck, why?
Plodder: Because you drink 5 cans of coke a day. That's terrible stuff, causing you all sorts of problems.
LPM: Why urine though?
Plodder: *waffles on endlessly about how bad coke is, with some valid sounding stuff mixed in with obvious exaggerations and weird claims*
LPM: Right, yeah, I get there might be a problem with my 5 cans of coke but why should I drink my own urine?
Plodder: Because it will undermine your coke drinking habit.
LPM: But what is good about urine?
Plodder: DRINK. YOUR. OWN. URINE.
plodder: Well, you might not like the taste, but it's a thing, no?
LPM: DIET COKE WON'T MAKE YOU THIN, YOU NEED TO EXERCISE. DIET COKE IS A SCAM.
plodder: Look LPM, it might not be great stuff but it's popular and seems to work for some people. For example,
LPM: ARE YOU MAD? WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE ME DRINK MY OWN URINE? ARE YOU MAD? ARE YOU MAD???
plodder: OK, maybe lay off the tartrazine a bit, fair enough
Re: FTX
This is a collection of very strong absolutist positions.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 pmWhat we have now is bad, crypto is way way worse and can fix non of the existing financial system has. The entire point of it is to get around any constraints we currently have. So all the bad things we have now, cranked up to 11 with a whole extra load of badness ontop.
Re: FTX
It's a statement of fact.plodder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:05 pmThis is a collection of very strong absolutist positions.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 pmWhat we have now is bad, crypto is way way worse and can fix non of the existing financial system has. The entire point of it is to get around any constraints we currently have. So all the bad things we have now, cranked up to 11 with a whole extra load of badness ontop.
No matter how hard you wish to overthrow the financial system to build something more to your liking, crypto doesn't actually do that.
Re: FTX
What are the assumptions that you want to challenge?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: FTX
Here’s the specific post I was talking about but in general this thread is full of “it’s a scam” or “the tech can never work” or “it can never improve on the lousy system we currently have” which are very opiniony opinions without balance or much thought.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 pmWhat we have now is bad, crypto is way way worse and can fix non of the existing financial system has. The entire point of it is to get around any constraints we currently have. So all the bad things we have now, cranked up to 11 with a whole extra load of badness ontop.
I’m being shouted down for presenting some of the actual reasons why some people think crypto can offer some genuine solutions to some big problems we have (the untouchable power of banks, for starters). Rather than shouting this down it would be more interesting if people did a bit of reading and said “I think they’re wrong because…” or even “do you know, I’d never thought about it like that, they’ve got a point, you know.”
Re: FTX
The only 'actual reasons why some people think crypto can offer some genuine solutions' I have seen in this thread (and I have re-read your posts in it just to check, FML) are that it avoids government regulations and banks. That's it. If there was a more specific and detailed reason I missed then please, please point it out.
So it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask for an example, just one, of a specific thing that is wrong with government regulated money and banks and a specific way in which cryptocurrencies make it better. Just one. Then we can discuss it.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through
Re: FTX
The only potentially useful specific reason I have spotted in the discussion is that banks charge us too much, require too much trust, and behave too riskily. But crypto has failed to improve on any of that. It costs a ridiculous amount to process transactions - but they hide the cost; it has much higher risk embodied in the high volatility; and it has relocated rather than removed the trust problem.nekomatic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:44 amThe only 'actual reasons why some people think crypto can offer some genuine solutions' I have seen in this thread (and I have re-read your posts in it just to check, FML) are that it avoids government regulations and banks. That's it. If there was a more specific and detailed reason I missed then please, please point it out.
So it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask for an example, just one, of a specific thing that is wrong with government regulated money and banks and a specific way in which cryptocurrencies make it better. Just one. Then we can discuss it.
Meanwhile the headline article in today's Metro, the London free-sheet newspaper, is the suspicious death of a third Russian crypto boss in a short period of time. A helicopter crashed into a hillside in the south of France for no apparent reason. I did suggest that organised crime might be upset with with crypto bosses at the moment. Though quite a few prominent rich Russians are losing their lives at the moment for not supporting the regime sufficiently enthusiastically. So it is hard to distinguish whether it is to do with crypto, or just being an unenthusiastic prominent Russian. And it is also hard to distinguish the FSB and organised crime.
Re: FTX
Well, traditional high finance doesn’t exactly have clean hands. It’s just they don’t have to crash helicopters, they can do things like have a gulf war or whatever. If you can’t imagine why some people think there’s something overwhelmingly suffocatingly awful about the system that props up governments and the stupifyingly wealthy then that’s nice for you, but don’t pretend there isn’t a line of thought there. The people looking to undermine this are ambitious with a capital A.
Last edited by plodder on Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: FTX
Again, as I pointed out in the other thread on this, that's largely not due to the currency, and changing to a non fiat currency does not change that.
High finance was also dodgy while most of the world was on the gold standard, which is the basic thing that crypto is trying to reproduce.
Re: FTX
What problem does that solve, and what problems does it introduce?
Note that you do not need crypto to cut out the central banks. You can just use stocks, commodities, precious metals, etc. as currency. Or issue non-crypto specie. You could use beanie babies if you want.
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Re: FTX
Traditional financial systems did not, in fact, cause the Gulf War.
Re: FTX
They need a stock exchange, crypto is potentially independent.dyqik wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:25 amWhat problem does that solve, and what problems does it introduce?
Note that you do not need crypto to cut out the central banks. You can just use stocks, commodities, precious metals, etc. as currency. Or issue non-crypto specie. You could use beanie babies if you want.
It introduces lots of problems, and solves things you may not think are problems. Bypassing banks is seen as a potential solution to the problem of the established financial elites who spin our money for their gain. I'm not a huge proponent of crypto so I'm not here to argue strongly for it, other than to say there is an argument to be made and it might be interesting to have it instead of a stonewall pig headed refusal to engage.
Re: FTX
It doesn't bypass banks because distributed ledgers are dreadful at what they do. So on the whole you have to trade on an exchange, which is effectively a bank.plodder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:08 pmThey need a stock exchange, crypto is potentially independent.dyqik wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:25 amWhat problem does that solve, and what problems does it introduce?
Note that you do not need crypto to cut out the central banks. You can just use stocks, commodities, precious metals, etc. as currency. Or issue non-crypto specie. You could use beanie babies if you want.
It introduces lots of problems, and solves things you may not think are problems. Bypassing banks is seen as a potential solution to the problem of the established financial elites who spin our money for their gain. I'm not a huge proponent of crypto so I'm not here to argue strongly for it, other than to say there is an argument to be made and it might be interesting to have it instead of a stonewall pig headed refusal to engage.
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Re: FTX
Of course. Nothing to do with Saddam Hussein's territorial ambitions against his neighbours, just (((International Finance)))plodder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:08 pmNo, nothing to do with money at all.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:47 amTraditional financial systems did not, in fact, cause the Gulf War.
Re: FTX
You don't need an exchange to trade stocks. Private trades happen all the time. A stock exchange is also not part of the central banks you want to do away with.plodder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:08 pmThey need a stock exchange, crypto is potentially independent.dyqik wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:25 amWhat problem does that solve, and what problems does it introduce?
Note that you do not need crypto to cut out the central banks. You can just use stocks, commodities, precious metals, etc. as currency. Or issue non-crypto specie. You could use beanie babies if you want.
Last edited by dyqik on Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: FTX
Wait a minute Mr logic fail. No one said just finance or nothing to do with anything else. These people are clever, remember?EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:13 pmOf course. Nothing to do with Saddam Hussein's territorial ambitions against his neighbours, just (((International Finance)))plodder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:08 pmNo, nothing to do with money at all.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:47 amTraditional financial systems did not, in fact, cause the Gulf War.
Re: FTX
Something you'd do well to remember.plodder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:20 pmWait a minute Mr logic fail. No one said just finance or nothing to do with anything else. These people are clever, remember?EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:13 pmOf course. Nothing to do with Saddam Hussein's territorial ambitions against his neighbours, just (((International Finance)))