Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

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Gfamily
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Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Gfamily » Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:48 pm

This is very interesting
https://www.science.org/content/article ... anderthals

If people are interested in knowing more about Neanderthals, the Rebecca Wragg Sykes book Kindred is well worth reading (also good as an audiobook).
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TimW
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by TimW » Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:32 pm

Thanks - my gargantuan book backlog urgently needs topping up.

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lpm
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by lpm » Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm

There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:13 am

lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
Certainly, and a bit wider, as far as I remember chimpanzees, wolves and dolphins have also been observed assisting injured members of the troop, pack or school. For example giving them food or among dolphins helping one to breathe. Herbivores in a herd will also try to protect young and old members from predators.

It seems pretty common among mammals at least.

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Tessa K
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:46 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:13 am
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
Certainly, and a bit wider, as far as I remember chimpanzees, wolves and dolphins have also been observed assisting injured members of the troop, pack or school. For example giving them food or among dolphins helping one to breathe. Herbivores in a herd will also try to protect young and old members from predators.

It seems pretty common among mammals at least.
Definitely chimps, as recorded by Frans de Waal with an older female. Not sure it would happen with an old male as a young one would take advantage to supplant them.

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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by bob sterman » Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
In many eagle species the parents permit and/or encourage siblicide. So they can be a bit selective in their care!!

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Tessa K
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:17 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
In many eagle species the parents permit and/or encourage siblicide. So they can be a bit selective in their care!!
My parents operated on a similar principle

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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by lpm » Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:00 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
In many eagle species the parents permit and/or encourage siblicide. So they can be a bit selective in their care!!
Arguably something went awry with these eagles' instincts and the fault caused them not to abandon the failure.

Likewise, arguably, something went wrong with the Neanderthal instincts.

And hence something is wrong with Homo sapiens instincts. Infanticide is logical and profitable.
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:37 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:00 pm
bob sterman wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
In many eagle species the parents permit and/or encourage siblicide. So they can be a bit selective in their care!!
Arguably something went awry with these eagles' instincts and the fault caused them not to abandon the failure.

Likewise, arguably, something went wrong with the Neanderthal instincts.

And hence something is wrong with Homo sapiens instincts. Infanticide is logical and profitable.
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Tessa K
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Re: Evidence for care of disabled children in Neanderthal community

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:54 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:00 pm
bob sterman wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:28 pm
There's the story about a pair of white tailed eagles taking care of a disabled offspring in its second year.

We would be surprised if caring didn't happen in all Homo species, not that it did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gxvgp6reo
In many eagle species the parents permit and/or encourage siblicide. So they can be a bit selective in their care!!
Arguably something went awry with these eagles' instincts and the fault caused them not to abandon the failure.

Likewise, arguably, something went wrong with the Neanderthal instincts.

And hence something is wrong with Homo sapiens instincts. Infanticide is logical and profitable.

The more effort it takes to produce offspring, the more likely the parents will try to keep them going. They may well have some value to the community in the case of social animals (mammals) whereas birds are not social and the only imperative is to breed and breed again. There are various roles within a community, only one in birds, reptiles and the smallest, fastest breeding mammals that are not social.

It takes much less effort and investment to lay eggs and raise chicks in a few weeks/months than a long gestation and dependent infancy. If there's a longer period between females being in oestrus it could take too long to produce a replacement too.

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