After Corbyn
Re: After Corbyn
Hmmm, this definitely looks like mud slinging to me
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ong-bailey
Starmer team raises questions about a RLB mailing that seems to have linked to a Labour Party contacts list
Starmer team then reported to the ICO for 'scraping' party member details.
The second part is the part that's reported to the BBC.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ong-bailey
Starmer team raises questions about a RLB mailing that seems to have linked to a Labour Party contacts list
Starmer team then reported to the ICO for 'scraping' party member details.
The second part is the part that's reported to the BBC.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: After Corbyn
Lord Ashcroft polling and focus groups on why Labour lost
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/d ... he-coffee/
Of course he is a Tory. But his polling is usually considered to be methodologically sound, and if he's sensible Ashcroft will want to know the actual reasons why Labour lost. So I'm inclined to take it seriously.
No surprises when reading it. Lots of people who had thought of themselves as being working class lifelong Labour supporters voted Tory. Brexit was an issue, but there were many others. People felt that the party wasn't focused upon people like them and instead was fixated upon causes that they were not interested in (but were popular with students and middle class radicals).
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/d ... he-coffee/
Of course he is a Tory. But his polling is usually considered to be methodologically sound, and if he's sensible Ashcroft will want to know the actual reasons why Labour lost. So I'm inclined to take it seriously.
No surprises when reading it. Lots of people who had thought of themselves as being working class lifelong Labour supporters voted Tory. Brexit was an issue, but there were many others. People felt that the party wasn't focused upon people like them and instead was fixated upon causes that they were not interested in (but were popular with students and middle class radicals).
Re: After Corbyn
RLB has a four point plan to turn around the fortunes of the labour party
- Get myself elected as leader
- Get my mate elected as deputy
- Carry on doing the same stuff as before
- Win the next GE
- Empowering members
- A democratic revolution that boosts trade union membership
- Scrapping the House of Lords,
- Creating a green industrial revolution
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
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Re: After Corbyn
Yeah, it's total b.llsh.t.
They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:
Health
Education
Security
They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:
Health
Education
Security
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
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Re: After Corbyn
I fear that might become a very boring publication.Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
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Re: After Corbyn
And jobsEl Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pmYeah, it's total b.llsh.t.
They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:
Health
Education
Security
While not raising taxes paid by people who vote Labour
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Re: After Corbyn
Ooof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pmI fear that might become a very boring publication.Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: After Corbyn
Yes. Do you want power or do you want to play around the margins?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pmOoof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pmI fear that might become a very boring publication.Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: After Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study
I don't know what to think about this.
One bit in particualr.
I don't know what to think about this.
One bit in particualr.
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.
One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
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Re: After Corbyn
That’s been the general view of the public for decades. When Labour politicians talk about higher taxes ordinary people assume that in the end they will be the ones to pay them.cvb wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 amhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study
I don't know what to think about this.
One bit in particualr.
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.
One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
Labour isn’t finished. But it needs a leadership that is able to persuade the electorate that it’s going to benefit from a Labour government.
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Re: After Corbyn
Every single time there's an election where one party does really well, and another badly, there's always talk of "is X finished"? Sometimes, this happens before the election itself - there were various bits of talk around whether the US republicans were finished in advance of the 2016 election where they got control of all three institutions.
That talk happened after the 1997 election, and was renewed after 2001. It is very, very rarely the case.
That talk happened after the 1997 election, and was renewed after 2001. It is very, very rarely the case.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: After Corbyn
Good to see Richard Burgeon has identified Labour's problem. It wasn't Corbyn's leadership or his squandering resources on safe Tory seats. It was outrageous Labour MPs who didn't back Corbyn.
I suppose Corbyn was entitled to the loyalty that he demonstrated as a backbencher.
I suppose Corbyn was entitled to the loyalty that he demonstrated as a backbencher.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: After Corbyn
I don't recall him actually discouraging people from voting Labour though.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: After Corbyn
Oh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming
https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.
The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.
Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: After Corbyn
"Tony Benn University of Political Education" sounds suspiciously like "Re-Education Camp". And I'm a lefty. f.ck knows how it sounds to floating voters, never mind Tories.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: After Corbyn
That's going to erode some of the proudest traditions of British journalism. In days gone by a Daily Mail writer would be expected to be capable of making up stuff like the Tony Benn University of Political Education. How will they learn to do that if Burgon keeps getting there first?
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?
Re: After Corbyn
He truly is of a calibre to debate with cabinet ministers at their own intellectual level.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 amOh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming
https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party
I'm still trying to work out for whom I should vote for deputy. I've eliminated several. Pity Jess Philips isn't standing.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: After Corbyn
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
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Re: After Corbyn
Not sure about Scotland - the last Indyref was very close, and that was before Brexit and without considering demographic turnover. I really think it's quite likely that Scotland will become an irrelevance to UK elections in the near future.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 amFor me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Labour needs to figure out how to win over the working classes again - that ought to be their raison d'etre. The labour movement sensu lato is in a parlous state in the UK, and is going to be needed more in the next few years of Brexshitting than at any time since Thatcher, I suspect.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: After Corbyn
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
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Re: After Corbyn
Spoken like a true, out-of-touch metropolitan elite.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pmUnfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: After Corbyn
Don't forget the whippetsEl Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pmUnfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Re: After Corbyn
Yes, those were the two I was thinking - just haven't worked out which would be better.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 amFor me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
I see that the Long Bailey cultists are out on Twitter.
Corbyn was highly effective and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on a PM than anyone else. That was in response to my observation that he had managed to lose to Theresa May.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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