Starmer

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FlammableFlower
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Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:52 am

Well, the Guardian seemed to like his effort at PMQs: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mprovement

With technology apparently resulting int this:
More importantly, PMQs without 400-odd MPs in the chamber makes everything quieter, calmer, more intelligible and more grown-up. For once the proceedings sounded like the question time sessions that take place in the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly. Without the jeering and the aggro, it lacked gladiatorial edge, and frankly it was probably a bit more boring than the old PMQs. But boring is a much under-rated virtue in governance. It will be be very interesting to see whether the Commons ever reverts to how it operated before when (or more probably if) this is all over.
I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when Johnson is back. I'd have thought he can't use his usual bluster and obfuscation with obscure phrases/language and poor jokes. Part of me suspects he'll be avoiding returning to face this as long as possible.

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discovolante
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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:57 am

I thought he did well, although he isn't brimming with personality so it's hard to see how he will do once everyone is back in shouting and jeering.

But god the number of people absolutely losing their minds online about it...calm down, jesus, you don't win elections by doing OK on PMQs, you do it by driving bulldozers through fake walls.
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FlammableFlower
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Re: Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:46 am

discovolante wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:57 am
I thought he did well, although he isn't brimming with personality so it's hard to see how he will do once everyone is back in shouting and jeering.

But god the number of people absolutely losing their minds online about it...calm down, jesus, you don't win elections by doing OK on PMQs, you do it by driving bulldozers through fake walls.
Definitely. My hope at the moment is that he can use the "calmer" environment to take apart the government and in particular show up Johnson for what he is.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Stranger Mouse » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:12 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:46 am
discovolante wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:57 am
I thought he did well, although he isn't brimming with personality so it's hard to see how he will do once everyone is back in shouting and jeering.

But god the number of people absolutely losing their minds online about it...calm down, jesus, you don't win elections by doing OK on PMQs, you do it by driving bulldozers through fake walls.
Definitely. My hope at the moment is that he can use the "calmer" environment to take apart the government and in particular show up Johnson for what he is.
With a bit of luck his forensic skills combined with his quiet manner will make the braying mob look like bozos. Especially when talking about nurses dying etc.
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:24 am

I look forward to seeing how the right-wing media treats a Labour leader with less extreme views and a more typical approach to attempting to engaging with them than we've had a recent in years.

Hopefully they'll be at least as fair to Starmer as they were to Brown and Miliband.
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Re: Starmer

Post by JQH » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:11 pm

That would be not at all, then.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Opti » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:19 pm

I think Johnson is sh.t scared of being forensically questioned by Starmer. His bluster won't work with him. How the media portray it will be a different thing. I hope the public mood is changing. But 'the man in the street' is the man in the street because he's a thick c.nt.
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Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:22 pm

David Allen Green tweeted this:
PMQs is like watching a City solicitor trying to wing it against an experienced QC

Which is, in fact, what it actually is
I also loved how Starmer put Raab "on notice", warning that he was going to return to his unanswered question next week. That was very, very good to see.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:24 pm

Opti wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:19 pm
But 'the man in the street' is the man in the street because he's a thick c.nt.
I'm not 100% sure this is the right attitude for Labour supporters to be taking.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Opti » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:24 pm
Opti wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:19 pm
But 'the man in the street' is the man in the street because he's a thick c.nt.
I'm not 100% sure this is the right attitude for Labour supporters to be taking.
Have you met 'the man in the street' lately? ;)
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Starmer

Post by plebian » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:44 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:24 am
I look forward to seeing how the right-wing media treats a Labour leader with less extreme views and a more typical approach to attempting to engaging with them than we've had a recent in years.

Hopefully they'll be at least as fair to Starmer as they were to Brown and Miliband.
JQH wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:11 pm
That would be not at all, then.
Brown was tainted (unfairly) by the crash but was also poor at PR, Miliband was tainted by previous government, Jewish and nerdy, Corbyn was a disaster of policy and presentation.

Starmer is attractive, young, very clever, speaks well, unimpeachably patriotic. There doesn't appear to be any chink in his normal person armour for the right wing press to attack.
Pithy, well, a right helmet at least.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:47 pm

plebian wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:44 pm
Starmer is attractive, young, very clever, speaks well, unimpeachably patriotic. There doesn't appear to be any chink in his normal person armour for the right wing press to attack.
This is more-or-less my analysis, though I've not delved too deeply into the world of Starmer.

This is why I'm interested to see what they come up with. They're not just going to melt back into the shadows after over a decade of calling the shots.
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Re: Starmer

Post by plebian » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:50 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:47 pm
plebian wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:44 pm
Starmer is attractive, young, very clever, speaks well, unimpeachably patriotic. There doesn't appear to be any chink in his normal person armour for the right wing press to attack.
This is more-or-less my analysis, though I've not delved too deeply into the world of Starmer.

This is why I'm interested to see what they come up with. They're not just going to melt back into the shadows after over a decade of calling the shots.
Concentrate on his performance and the nonsense they can kick up about members of the shadow cabinet, which can then be used to beat him?
Pithy, well, a right helmet at least.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Lew Dolby » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:23 pm

. . . or just simply make sh.t up !!??!!

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Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:31 pm

Quite good to see him taking Raab's dishonest spin to bits re: test numbers when Raab tried to pretend numbers were higher by citing supposed capacity, when Starmer was talking about actual tests done. Not only did he make Raab look stupid and dishonest, which he is, he was able to get in the point that if capacity is above numbers of tests done, then why the hell aren't more tests being done?

Very early days yet, but Raab utterly failed to bluster and b.llsh.t his way round Starmer, and I guess it's probably quite tricky to bluster and lie one's way around a veteran QC.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Wed May 06, 2020 12:04 pm

Starmer did well in PMQs today. Calm forensic questions and Johnson looked rattled. Looks like we have a functioning opposition leader at last.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Opti » Wed May 06, 2020 12:25 pm

I think Starmer made blustering Boris look like a guilty defendant.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed May 06, 2020 1:53 pm

Current format certainly is better for him than Johnson.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 06, 2020 5:19 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:53 pm
Current format certainly is better for him than Johnson.
Also, Johnson just nearly died. I'd imagine he's at least mildly traumatised.

Also, Johnson just had a new baby. I'd imagine he's at least mildly sleep-deprived.

So he's probably performing roughly at his worst. It's a good opportunity for Starmer to get warmed up and build some momentum (not like that) before Johnson's back on top form.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Opti » Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 pm

I really doubt he's that bothered about knocking out another sprog. He's never seemed that troubled about it before.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Starmer

Post by shpalman » Wed May 06, 2020 6:03 pm

And it's firmly his own fault that he was in excellent spirits nearly died, having ignored scientific and medical advice.

(in contrast to lots of people who have actually died because of his fuckery)

So no sympathy from me either.
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Stephanie
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Re: Starmer

Post by Stephanie » Wed May 06, 2020 7:02 pm

Not sure boaf was suggesting sympathy, so much as making an observation...
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 06, 2020 10:48 pm

Stephanie gets me.

Beating a sleep-deprived* half**-dead Boris is fine. Beating an alert, relatively fit Boris backed by his adoring audience will be tougher.

*Whether he's bothered or not, babies are f.cking noisy.

**Unfortunately
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Re: Starmer

Post by dyqik » Wed May 06, 2020 11:31 pm

Although having now built* the narrative that he's hammering Raab and Johnson, it'll all be interpreted through that lens in the future. If the narrative takes hold fully, it'll be really hard for Johnson to change it.

*Started building. Maybe give it a few weeks of this.

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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Thu May 07, 2020 8:48 am

Is the GE in whenever time going to be fought on PMQ performances, or grooming gangs?
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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