Ditto.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:07 pmThere is a certain irony that as a non-Brizzlian I didn’t have a clue who Colston was UNTIL his statue was pulled down. It is only the act of destruction itself which has brought him and his role in the slave trade to my attention.Tessa K wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:58 amI wonder how many of the people who say it's erasing history could actually have named who the statue was of if shown it?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:14 pmThe "erasing history" argument is particularly misguided. We remember history through books, not statues. It's not like Germany should be forced to erect statues of prominent Nazis to help remember that chapter of history.
He should be replaced with a slavery memorial IMHO.
If it had been left where it was I could have spent the rest of my life not knowing he was a massive c.nt.
So it is the very opposite of “erasing history”.
Edward Colston statue pulled down
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
From Facebook
Also what Little Waster and Dyqik said
Also what Little Waster and Dyqik said
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
It's not just non-Bristolians who are learning about Colston for the first time. It's a name to many, nothing more.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:07 pmThere is a certain irony that as a non-Brizzlian I didn’t have a clue who Colston was UNTIL his statue was pulled down. It is only the act of destruction itself which has brought him and his role in the slave trade to my attention.Tessa K wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:58 amI wonder how many of the people who say it's erasing history could actually have named who the statue was of if shown it?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:14 pmThe "erasing history" argument is particularly misguided. We remember history through books, not statues. It's not like Germany should be forced to erect statues of prominent Nazis to help remember that chapter of history.
He should be replaced with a slavery memorial IMHO.
If it had been left where it was I could have spent the rest of my life not knowing he was a massive c.nt.
So it is the very opposite of “erasing history”. [my bold]
I've also realised that having statues of people seems to make discussions of their lives harder, not easier. Because, as many have pointed out, statues are for adoration, not for reminding us of history, if there's a statue of someone then it seems that by definition it must be because they were good so anyone saying they weren't must be sh.t-stirring and can safely be ignored.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Residents of Ashbourne hide the bust of a black man before the council could take it away
Thomas Donnelly incidentally holds two gold Olympic Gold medals; one for shoe-horning and one for point-missing.
There is quite a lot going on in that statement.Thomas Donnelly, a local Conservative councillor, said: “It’s the people of Ashbourne who should decide, not Germany or France or the Netherlands.” He said the bust was not offensive because “it’s not black anyway, it’s Turkish.”
Thomas Donnelly incidentally holds two gold Olympic Gold medals; one for shoe-horning and one for point-missing.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Followed by:-
So as you can see it could be ANY colour.
Renshaw then proceeded to take down the black head from above the giant sign proclaiming "The Black’s Head", pledging to give the head a "lick of black paint" before returning it to its rightful place.Renshaw said there was nothing offensive about the bust. “It could be any colour,” he said. “It’s nothing to do with racism. It’s a fertility thing.”
So as you can see it could be ANY colour.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
'it must be because they were good' - or royal or Roman/Greek or religious. Or they're Art.Fishnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:33 pm
I've also realised that having statues of people seems to make discussions of their lives harder, not easier. Because, as many have pointed out, statues are for adoration, not for reminding us of history, if there's a statue of someone then it seems that by definition it must be because they were good so anyone saying they weren't must be sh.t-stirring and can safely be ignored.
There's another statue of Churchill inside Parliament in the Members' Lobby. It's pretty ugly.
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
To be fair, so was ChurchillTessa K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:40 am'it must be because they were good' - or royal or Roman/Greek or religious. Or they're Art.Fishnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:33 pm
I've also realised that having statues of people seems to make discussions of their lives harder, not easier. Because, as many have pointed out, statues are for adoration, not for reminding us of history, if there's a statue of someone then it seems that by definition it must be because they were good so anyone saying they weren't must be sh.t-stirring and can safely be ignored.
There's another statue of Churchill inside Parliament in the Members' Lobby. It's pretty ugly.
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Indeed. In fact one could argue that the people who erected the statue in the first place without mentioning he was a human-trafficker were the ones erasing history.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:07 pmThere is a certain irony that as a non-Brizzlian I didn’t have a clue who Colston was UNTIL his statue was pulled down. It is only the act of destruction itself which has brought him and his role in the slave trade to my attention.Tessa K wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:58 amI wonder how many of the people who say it's erasing history could actually have named who the statue was of if shown it?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:14 pmThe "erasing history" argument is particularly misguided. We remember history through books, not statues. It's not like Germany should be forced to erect statues of prominent Nazis to help remember that chapter of history.
He should be replaced with a slavery memorial IMHO.
If it had been left where it was I could have spent the rest of my life not knowing he was a massive c.nt.
So it is the very opposite of “erasing history”.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
In the Henry Ford sense it is indeed any colour.Little waster wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:56 amFollowed by:-
Renshaw then proceeded to take down the black head from above the giant sign proclaiming "The Black’s Head", pledging to give the head a "lick of black paint" before returning it to its rightful place.Renshaw said there was nothing offensive about the bust. “It could be any colour,” he said. “It’s nothing to do with racism. It’s a fertility thing.”
So as you can see it could be ANY colour.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
This is what Bristolians are up against. No wonder the statue was still there.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/09/edward-c ... op.twitterA councillor in Bristol has described 17th century slave trader Edward Colston as a ‘hero’ to the city, labelling those who pulled his statue down a ‘criminal mob’. According to the Bristol Live website, Conservative Richard Eddy, who represents the ward of Bishopsworth on Bristol City Council, condemned the toppling of the controversial statue ... In 2001, Mr Eddy resigned as deputy leader of the council’s conservative group after adopting a golliwog as a mascot and facing criticism from racial equality groups and his own party.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Are you sure he wasn't beaten in the point-missing competition by this conservative councillor?Little waster wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:45 amResidents of Ashbourne hide the bust of a black man before the council could take it away
There is quite a lot going on in that statement.Thomas Donnelly, a local Conservative councillor, said: “It’s the people of Ashbourne who should decide, not Germany or France or the Netherlands.” He said the bust was not offensive because “it’s not black anyway, it’s Turkish.”
Thomas Donnelly incidentally holds two gold Olympic Gold medals; one for shoe-horning and one for point-missing.
In terms of within Bristol - what with there being quite a few things named after him (a school, a concert hall and a tower block for starters) - most Bristolians know of him, but I suspect not all the aspect of him making the fortune, that he then lavished on parts of Bristol, from slave-trading. There's the not untiny thing of managing to completely fail to see this from someone else's viewpoint. Yes, it was all in the past - but for a large number of people, who coincidentally aren't white, then his actions generally fed into the situation that they find themselves in - and that is not remotely on an equal footing to those who are white. As such, it'd be much better if they didn't have a whacking great reminder of that smack in the middle of the city centre. But then you come to the likes of Richard Eddy, who is a racist tw.t.Linda Symes, a Portsmouth councillor, has been suspended from the party after appearing to question why there were demonstrations over the death of Floyd and yet not over the murder of Lee Rigby or the death of seven-year-old Emily Jones.
She shared a post which read: “Total morons, don’t remember any demonstrations like this when Lee Rigby was murdered on our streets by BLACK people.”
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
This is the same person who had objected to a new plaque explaining Colston's involvement in the slave trade, and who said that vandalism against such a plaque would be justified.Tessa K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:18 amThis is what Bristolians are up against. No wonder the statue was still there.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/09/edward-c ... op.twitterA councillor in Bristol has described 17th century slave trader Edward Colston as a ‘hero’ to the city, labelling those who pulled his statue down a ‘criminal mob’. According to the Bristol Live website, Conservative Richard Eddy, who represents the ward of Bishopsworth on Bristol City Council, condemned the toppling of the controversial statue ... In 2001, Mr Eddy resigned as deputy leader of the council’s conservative group after adopting a golliwog as a mascot and facing criticism from racial equality groups and his own party.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:51 am
Are you sure he wasn't beaten in the point-missing competition by this conservative councillor?
.Linda Symes, a Portsmouth councillor, has been suspended from the party after appearing to question why there were demonstrations over the death of Floyd and yet not over the murder of Lee Rigby or the death of seven-year-old Emily Jones.
She shared a post which read: “Total morons, don’t remember any demonstrations like this when Lee Rigby was murdered on our streets by BLACK people.”
Of course she isn't racist. I assume it just a complete coincidence the two examples she happened to pick were of two black men and a Muslim woman killing white people.Speaking to Portsmouth’s The News before her suspension, Symes insisted she was not racist. “In sharing posts on my private Facebook page, I was highlighting that there have been brutal killings of children and adults in the UK, but people didn’t protest and riot about that,” she said.
I don't seem to recall 4 days of humming and haaing over whether Rigby's killer would even face disciplinary action nevermind murder charges, nor prominent politicians lining up to defend Skana as having done nothing wrong.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Interesting suggestion from Banksy on what to do with the Colston statue - to incorporate it in a new larger sculpture, along with statues of the protestors, commemorating the moment it was pulled down.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Bristol's mayor comments:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ue-slaveryThe mayor of Bristol is to ask historians and academics to produce a detailed study of all the local memorials and places linked to the slave trade to inform a citywide conversation on their future.
Marvin Rees said the statue of the slave trader Edward Colston would be retrieved from the harbour, where it was dumped by anti-racism campaigners on Sunday, but no decision about its long-term future had been made.
Rees said he wanted to start a calm discussion about what to do about the statue, the plinth where it stood and the other memorials and places in Bristol with links to slavery.... He criticised the UK government’s strong criticism of the protesters who hauled down the statue. Rees said: “Bombastic statements from the touchline don’t help. They don’t know what’s going on in Bristol, they don’t know what’s happening on the ground, they don’t know the culture of this city. How can they think they can speak with any wisdom or insight?”
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Richard Herring suggested the same thing. Has anyone seen them in a room together?
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now I sin till ten past three
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Brilliant - no-one can work out who actually owned the statue and from what I can tell it may require the owner to request a prosecution, so no owner, no prosecution (and even if/when they do work it out there's no guarantee they'll want to - I can't imagine it would be a good idea from a PR standpoint.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
It's Grade II listed, which may make a difference. If it's the same as a listed building or a war memorial, thenFishnut wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:35 pmBrilliant - no-one can work out who actually owned the statue and from what I can tell it may require the owner to request a prosecution, so no owner, no prosecution (and even if/when they do work it out there's no guarantee they'll want to - I can't imagine it would be a good idea from a PR standpoint.
AlsoA listed building may not be demolished, extended, or altered without special permission from the local planning authority
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/h ... ction1TextTheft, arson and criminal damage may all be committed to a historic building or site. These 'everyday' offences may be the only or most appropriate means of bringing someone to justice for damaging England's heritage. The most important consideration in prosecuting and sentencing such crimes is the impact on our heritage which may be irreversible and cannot be equated to a financial cost. This can be brought to the courts attention through a heritage impact statement
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
I had seen something about listing means a prosecution may be required regardless of owner, which is a pain.Tessa K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:54 pmIt's Grade II listed, which may make a difference. If it's the same as a listed building or a war memorial, thenFishnut wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:35 pmBrilliant - no-one can work out who actually owned the statue and from what I can tell it may require the owner to request a prosecution, so no owner, no prosecution (and even if/when they do work it out there's no guarantee they'll want to - I can't imagine it would be a good idea from a PR standpoint.AlsoA listed building may not be demolished, extended, or altered without special permission from the local planning authorityhttps://historicengland.org.uk/advice/h ... ction1TextTheft, arson and criminal damage may all be committed to a historic building or site. These 'everyday' offences may be the only or most appropriate means of bringing someone to justice for damaging England's heritage. The most important consideration in prosecuting and sentencing such crimes is the impact on our heritage which may be irreversible and cannot be equated to a financial cost. This can be brought to the courts attention through a heritage impact statement
I found its listing, which happened in 1977, and it gives the following:
ETAREASONS FOR DESIGNATION The statue of Edward Colston is designated at Grade II for the following principal reasons: * A handsome statue, erected in the late C19 to commemorate a late C17 figure; the resulting contrast of styles is handled with confidence * The statue is of particular historical interest, the subject being Edward Colston, Bristol's most famous philanthropist, now also noted for his involvement in the slave trade. * Group value with other Bristol memorials: a statue of Edmund Burke, the Cenotaph, and a drinking fountain commemorating the Industrial and Fine Art Exhibition of 1893.
One could, I think quite convincingly, argue that the impact on our heritage has been a positive act rather than a negative one, particularly if they do eventually fish it out and put it in a museum like people have been asking for years.The most important consideration in prosecuting and sentencing such crimes is the impact on our heritage which may be irreversible and cannot be equated to a financial cost.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Yes. Whoever did it should be given a reward. Then take all the statues of white men, slavers or not, colonialists, imperialists, whatever and put them in a museum.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
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Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
He's been pulled up and is now in a secure location before he goes into a museum. I suspect it will go in M Shed but I'm hoping that we eventually get a museum specifically on Bristol's involvement in the slave trade as it's clearly needed.
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
The grafitti and ropes around him have been left on, which is interesting.Fishnut wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:58 amHe's been pulled up and is now in a secure location before he goes into a museum. I suspect it will go in M Shed but I'm hoping that we eventually get a museum specifically on Bristol's involvement in the slave trade as it's clearly needed.
There is space in Bristol's museums to have a room devoted to the slave trade even if there isn't the money to build a separate museum.
Now the Baden Powell statue in Poole harbour has been removed. He was openly racist, homophobic and a supporter of Hitler. He was also accused of starving African people at Mafeking.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ba ... al_beliefsIn 1939 Baden-Powell wrote in his diary: "Lay up all day. Read Mein Kampf. A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organisation etc.
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
Some arse has gone for a bit of revenge. You take down my statue of a slave trader, I'll throw bleach on your statue of a Windrush-generation black playwright, poet and actor.
The St Paul’s poet and community activist Lawrence Hoo said: “Someone came and bleached him. Everything didn’t get made better a couple of days ago, and just to show that in this climate, someone still felt to come down and try and deface the one statue we’ve got from one person from the community of culture that had been recognised enough to be adorned on a plinth.”
it's okay to say "I don't know"
Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
I don’t think Baden-Powell’s statue has been removed, the article says it’s going to be but there are people objecting. Maybe there will be a calm debate about it, that would be nice.Tessa K wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:40 amThe grafitti and ropes around him have been left on, which is interesting.Fishnut wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:58 amHe's been pulled up and is now in a secure location before he goes into a museum. I suspect it will go in M Shed but I'm hoping that we eventually get a museum specifically on Bristol's involvement in the slave trade as it's clearly needed.
There is space in Bristol's museums to have a room devoted to the slave trade even if there isn't the money to build a separate museum.
Now the Baden Powell statue in Poole harbour has been removed. He was openly racist, homophobic and a supporter of Hitler. He was also accused of starving African people at Mafeking.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ba ... al_beliefsIn 1939 Baden-Powell wrote in his diary: "Lay up all day. Read Mein Kampf. A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organisation etc.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down
But remember to repeat to yourself 100 times before you go to sleep tonight “There is nothing racist about opposing the removal of the Colston statue. There is nothing racist about opposing the removal of the Colston statue.”Fishnut wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:01 pmSome arse has gone for a bit of revenge. You take down my statue of a slave trader, I'll throw bleach on your statue of a Windrush-generation black playwright, poet and actor.
The St Paul’s poet and community activist Lawrence Hoo said: “Someone came and bleached him. Everything didn’t get made better a couple of days ago, and just to show that in this climate, someone still felt to come down and try and deface the one statue we’ve got from one person from the community of culture that had been recognised enough to be adorned on a plinth.”
Also gollywogs.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.