Pity that its already happened.TimW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 amLatest results from the European Social Survey
A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Getting Brexit done
- Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Re: Getting Brexit done
Too f.cking late. We're out.TimW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 amLatest results from the European Social Survey
A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: Getting Brexit done
There's still chance to sneak a BINO through though?
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
Re: Getting Brexit done
Though it is possible that convinced Brexiters would choose not to participate in The European Social SurveyTimW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 amLatest results from the European Social Survey
A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: Getting Brexit done
Time, perhaps, but nobody to do it. The people whose job it would be have nailed their colours to the blazing, sinking wreckage.
Remember when they promised we would have a new deal with the EU sorted before we even triggered Article 50? That was just 4 years ago. And the dog has been eating their homework every backward step of the way from there to here.
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Hah typical Remoaner!
We don't need no stinking EU trade deals as we will easily replace them with new and better deals with other countries.
Liam Fox promised us 40 trade deals to go by March 2019 and here we are a mere 18 months later with ... 20 ... including such trading titans as Kosovo, Palestine and the Seychelles.
That's some record of delivery, suck up the will'o'the'people, Remoaners!
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: Getting Brexit done
I don't know really. For all those who think that this place is a democracy, we voted to leave and left. So we can say that's done and nobody has betrayed willy the people.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:37 amPity that its already happened.TimW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 amLatest results from the European Social Survey
A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
What next? Well, let's rejoin if it's what the people want.
Re: Getting Brexit done
How about if it was known here as UK Opinion?Gfamily wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:49 amThough it is possible that convinced Brexiters would choose not to participate in The European Social SurveyTimW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 amLatest results from the European Social Survey
A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
- Brightonian
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
Re: Getting Brexit done
It looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.Brightonian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pmGreat Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
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Re: Getting Brexit done
It's a good thread and I'd agree with bjn that they haven't got to the end of their Brexit epiphany just yet.
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
However BTL they are still cranking out the same Quitling canards:-bjn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 amIt looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.Brightonian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pmGreat Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
1) It's just more Project Fear ... though what would be the point of anyone fearmongering over a fait accompli, regardless of what anyone says now we are all about to unavoidably find out whether Project Fear turns out to be Project Reality.
2) Cakeism. It won't happen because they need us more than them ... while speculative investors from all over the rEU are smacking their lips at the imminent fire-sale of ex-pat assets and the Spanish tourism sector brushes up on their German/Dutch/French/Polish.
3) It is the mean EU being big meanies ... it as almost as if after 40 years of Brits moaning and lying about the size of their Extrawurst the EU didn't fancy self-immolating the entire basis of their post-war political, economic and social system just to maintain some dipsticks' delusions of Empire.
4) It is all the Remoaners fault, if only they had stuck their fingers in their ears and went lalalala with the rest of us it would all be fine by now.
5) Remainer Concern Troll is Concerned ... despite claiming to have voted Remain in 2016 apparently 4 years of watching all the Leavers claims turning into vapour while the worst fears of the Remainers were fully-realised has somehow convinced them the Leavers were right all along ... because that's definitely how cognitive biases work.
They've learnt nothing and a year from now when a Hard Brexit has compounded the Corona-Crunch I don't imagine anything will have changed.
Last edited by Little waster on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 amIt looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.Brightonian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pmGreat Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
Re: Getting Brexit done
I strongly agree.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 amIt looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.Brightonian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pmGreat Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
To me the deal that Norway got looks better and better. We pay money of course but can afford that, while we keep the freedom to shield our farming that has to face the Way-Up-North conditions round about the Arctic circle, and our fishing. Surely when a small country with 5 million people can do so well and over long time that demonstrates the arrangements we have are quite good and not unfair?
Yet there is a powerful political fringe that wants to have us out. After the Brexit vote they looked forward to the Great Success that was sure to result and would encourage Norway to exit too. The majority of these politicians are still unable to see that Brexit is bad. Minority parties get many representatives in our parliament and will try to do considerable deal-trading round the election coming up in a year.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 amLooks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
If you bring your kids up to think for themselves, you can't complain when they do.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Yes, those as well probably.Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pmAIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 amLooks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
- sTeamTraen
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Those are requirements to apply for French nationality. France, like most civilised countries, does not impose a requirement for you to have any level of language proficiency before you can become a legal resident; for one thing, it might stop a multinational company from sending a manager there for a posting. I can, however, think of one country that is planning to impose such a requirement...Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:47 pmYes, those as well probably.Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pmAIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
I really want to know if that Twitter thread is real. I'm currently leaning towards it being fake, perhaps based on a couple of crumbs of truth. The author tweeted earlier that it was indeed real (having had some pushback in the comments), but I am skeptical. He seems to be a professional writer and the amusing anecdotes are coming rather thick and fast (oo-er missus). The thread has 50,000 likes and has presumably been seen by people who live nearby and would know exactly who these individuals are. The "idiot son", in particular, might object to that description.
Something something hammer something something nail
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Yeahbbut, as BTL points out, Cary Grant apparently lived in the South of France in the 50s.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:47 pmYes, those as well probably.Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pmAIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 amLooks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
So there you have it, a wealthy American film star lived in France 70 years ago so therefore there's no reason why two random Brit pensioners can't just retire there in the 2020s if they want to.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- shpalman
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Re: Getting Brexit done
The sufficient income thing (plus some kind of health cover) is something you need to demonstrate if you want to stay more than three months. This is an EU-wide rule which the UK never got around to implementing.Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pmAIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 amLooks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
I got round to doing it here after about three years... for within-EU (at the time) immigration they're relatively easy going.
(The health cover thing is mainly to show that you had health cover in the place you're coming from, i.e. you didn't go to Italy just to get that. Then you have to go to the health service once a year with your work contract to keep your Italian heath card activated, until you get permanent residence.)
To get permanent residence in Italy I did the five year thing but there wasn't any test of my Italian. Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English is ok.
(ETA: citizenship is something else, which I think seems to involve just getting your original country to say that you're not a criminal and then waiting several years for nothing to happen.)
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
You don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- shpalman
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Whereas English is just... shouting? And making stupid stereotypical "joke" assumptions about foreigners?Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pmYou don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Exactly and if they don't understand you, you just aren't shouting loud enough.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 pmWhereas English is just... shouting? And making stupid stereotypical "joke" assumptions about foreigners?Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pmYou don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- Bird on a Fire
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Yep, very similar for the residence process for Mrs BoaF, who's from a third country (Mexico). Proof of income, proof of address and health insurance were required, but not language (although the entire process including an interview is in Portuguese, so there's a bit of a de factor requirement). And being married to an EU citizen helped.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pmThe sufficient income thing (plus some kind of health cover) is something you need to demonstrate if you want to stay more than three months. This is an EU-wide rule which the UK never got around to implementing.Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pmAIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 amLooks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
I got round to doing it here after about three years... for within-EU (at the time) immigration they're relatively easy going.
(The health cover thing is mainly to show that you had health cover in the place you're coming from, i.e. you didn't go to Italy just to get that. Then you have to go to the health service once a year with your work contract to keep your Italian heath card activated, until you get permanent residence.)
To get permanent residence in Italy I did the five year thing but there wasn't any test of my Italian. Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English is ok.
(ETA: citizenship is something else, which I think seems to involve just getting your original country to say that you're not a criminal and then waiting several years for nothing to happen.)
Citizenship by naturalisation requires five years of pre-existing residence, clean criminal record from home and away, official language certificates and 'proof of effective links to the Portuguese community'. I shall be applying a few months after I defend my PhD.
Alternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
- Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done
My ex was a budding journalist. Her biggest scoop was breaking a story on how such a system was being misused in Canada.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm
Alternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/0 ... 1593534445
IIRC. Prince Edward Island had a scheme where Korean and Chinese nationals could jump the immigration queue by investing a significant sum into an existing business in PEI, with the idea they would bring both an injection of investment and people into an area struggling with rapid depopulation.
Invariably most investors would simply hand over the cash (around CAD 30,000) without any regard where the money went and no expectation of ever seeing it again and then just move to Toronto or Vancouver without ever as much as visiting PEI.
The suggestion was the local authorities were fully-aware of this and just chose to turn a blind-eye to it with half the cash pocketed by various middle-men.
To the Chinese it was considered just the price of doing business, no different than slipping a low-level bureaucrat some cash to expediate some paperwork, a culture of "gift-giving" going back millennia, ironically cited as one of the reasons some of the Chinese immigrants were looking to get away from.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Presumably it has to be €500k cash? I can't take out a €400k mortgage and buy a €500k house?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pmAlternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
I wanna be EUian again. I liked it when I was. Ever since Brexit it seems like I've just be trapped indoors, never going away on holiday, never even going out to restaurants or pubs.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021