He seems to be playing from the Global Warming denier playbookMichael Levitt
@MLevitt_NP2013
Stanford Prof. of Biophysics, Cambridge PhD and DSc, 2013 Chemistry Nobel Laureate (complex systems), FRS & US National Academy member, I code well for my age.
United Statesmed.stanford.edu/levitt.htmlJoined September 2016
Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Yes Michael, that's right, and all those charts showing excess deaths far higher than any winter flu season, those are just made up for fun, as well.
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Exactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
It's just because of all the extra testing. In a normal year we can only distinguish between who's alive and who's dead in extreme cases of death. This year, all of the dead people are getting recorded in the government figures.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pmExactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
And amazingly, all those people with stage 4 cancer and advanced COPD, y'know, the ones who were going to die early, all went to big public gatherings in the first half of March. Presumably they knew they were going to die early and wanted to tick off a visit to Cheltenham or a Stereophonics gig from the bucket list.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pmExactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
Something something hammer something something nail
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
I've got some nice graphs about excess deaths etc in this thread, from my currently-pinned tweet:FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pmExactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status/12 ... 14240?s=20
And for the excess deaths thing, the "lockdown skeptics" don't seem to explain why, if the deaths are due to the lockdown not the virus, they peak just after the lockdown and then fall, even as the lockdown continues.
Or how second waves happen - if burnout is a thing.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Hang on - there are people claiming that lockdown has caused the excess deaths? How exactly are they explaining that one? I mean, I can understand there will be lockdown-caused additional deaths, for a variety of reasons, but only in numbers that ought to be at least mostly compensated for by a reduction in deaths due to fewer accidents, etc.jimbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pmI've got some nice graphs about excess deaths etc in this thread, from my currently-pinned tweet:FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pmExactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status/12 ... 14240?s=20
And for the excess deaths thing, the "lockdown skeptics" don't seem to explain why, if the deaths are due to the lockdown not the virus, they peak just after the lockdown and then fall, even as the lockdown continues.
Or how second waves happen - if burnout is a thing.
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
In reply to my posting of the excess deaths in April, compared to their claim that there weere 50k deaths due to the 2017-2018 winter flu seasonbagpuss wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:12 amHang on - there are people claiming that lockdown has caused the excess deaths? How exactly are they explaining that one? I mean, I can understand there will be lockdown-caused additional deaths, for a variety of reasons, but only in numbers that ought to be at least mostly compensated for by a reduction in deaths due to fewer accidents, etc.jimbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pmI've got some nice graphs about excess deaths etc in this thread, from my currently-pinned tweet:FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pm
Exactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status/12 ... 14240?s=20
And for the excess deaths thing, the "lockdown skeptics" don't seem to explain why, if the deaths are due to the lockdown not the virus, they peak just after the lockdown and then fall, even as the lockdown continues.
Or how second waves happen - if burnout is a thing.
To be fair, I was indeed stunned by his claim.
If you want to find idiocy, look for the #KBF hashtag, which I think is "keep Britain free"
https://twitter.com/EndUKLockdown1/stat ... 68896?s=20
UK Lockdown Sceptic #KBF
@EndUKLockdown1
·
Jun 8
Many of those due to lockdown and the mass murder that has occurred in care homes by sending Covid patients back into them.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
- Gentleman Jim
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Originally from a Global Warming protest, it has been seen since re Covid
Why should we go to school if you won't listen to the educated
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Isn't that kind of admitting that Covid does in fact kill people?
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Sadly, it seems to be a common idea that old people don't count
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/10/mi ... else-14706
A "colleague" of yours, dyqik?![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Q: Where do you go to find overpaid, under-sane professors, talking about chemistry when they know nothing about it?
A: MIT, the home of Dr. Stephanie Seneff, who has spent a career making up nonsense about glyphosate. And she's outdone herself this time: Glyphosate causes COVID. Nope, not kidding.
A "colleague" of yours, dyqik?
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Kentucky Boiled Fowl - KFC's less-successful sister company.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- bob sterman
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
So now someone from the "Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM)" thinks it's time to engage the public with an unusual theory, that he's put together based on the Barcelona sewage pre-print...
Expert: Covid-19 may have been dormant around the world before emerging in China
https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/the-c ... professor/
What on earth does "lying dormant" mean for a virus like SARS-CoV-2 that needs a host to replicate??? E.g. in the UK? Hanging around in some blokes guy until he decides to go to a business conference in the Far East, or maybe go skiing?
Expert: Covid-19 may have been dormant around the world before emerging in China
https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/the-c ... professor/
What on earth does "lying dormant" mean for a virus like SARS-CoV-2 that needs a host to replicate??? E.g. in the UK? Hanging around in some blokes guy until he decides to go to a business conference in the Far East, or maybe go skiing?
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Yes, have at this if you want to prod dangerous fools.bagpuss wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:12 amHang on - there are people claiming that lockdown has caused the excess deaths? How exactly are they explaining that one? I mean, I can understand there will be lockdown-caused additional deaths, for a variety of reasons, but only in numbers that ought to be at least mostly compensated for by a reduction in deaths due to fewer accidents, etc.jimbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pmI've got some nice graphs about excess deaths etc in this thread, from my currently-pinned tweet:FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:35 pm
Exactly! All those people died, they just happened to have COVID... it definitely didn't contribute in any way to them dying...
https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status/12 ... 14240?s=20
And for the excess deaths thing, the "lockdown skeptics" don't seem to explain why, if the deaths are due to the lockdown not the virus, they peak just after the lockdown and then fall, even as the lockdown continues.
Or how second waves happen - if burnout is a thing.
https://twitter.com/ragnar_lives/status ... 34816?s=20
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
I see Matt Le Tissier has jumped onto that idea that it's no worse than flu.
https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/ ... 3770431489
He was also pushing the Corbett Report on vaccines.
Rationalwiki isn't flattering: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Cor ... ett_Report
https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/ ... 3770431489
He was also pushing the Corbett Report on vaccines.
Rationalwiki isn't flattering: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Cor ... ett_Report
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Slightly related to the increased excess deaths figures, we are seeing far far fewer outbreaks of other infectious diseases across England probably as a combination of the lockdown, better hand hygiene and less international travel. So it's not those that are killing people.
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Yup. Who would have thought it.OneOffDave wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:19 amSlightly related to the increased excess deaths figures, we are seeing far far fewer outbreaks of other infectious diseases across England probably as a combination of the lockdown, better hand hygiene and less international travel. So it's not those that are killing people.
I've now come across someone who keeps spamming with a Telegraph article that lockdown *has* killed 21000 people already.
It's odd that it doesn't show up in the excess deaths statistics - unless lockdown happened to kill people just as COVID was, and then declined before lockdown ended.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... y-experts/
No I'm not going to register to read it. Because, unless it's vastly different from the headline - it's rubbish
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Who needs doctors, virologists and epidemiologists...
...when you've got a sociologist ready to tell you to "calm down, calm down"?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
...when you've got a sociologist ready to tell you to "calm down, calm down"?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Alternatively he could just check up with some actuaries to see that he's talking rubbish, and it's more like a decade on average.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:01 pmWho needs doctors, virologists and epidemiologists...
...when you've got a sociologist ready to tell you to "calm down, calm down"?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status/12 ... 1175044096
Or AustraliaThe BBC Radio4 programme "More or Less" looked at the idea that those who died would have died soon anyway, and this doesn't look to be the case. They gave previous examples of previous events this did and didn't happen.
https://twitter.com/BBCMoreOrLess/statu ... 1277390850
https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/12 ... 9191858178
Dr Zoë Hyde
@DrZoeHyde
On average, #COVID19 was associated with 14 years of life lost (YLL) for males, and 11 years for females in Australia.
This is larger than most of the major causes of death, including heart disease. CV19 is associated with substantial premature mortality.
https://t.co/xO1ujs3PHf?amp=1
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Here's another -
https://wmbriggs.com/post/30606/
Yes - apparently if this happened in 1830, (or to be fair to the author, 1950) we mightn't spot COVID-19 as such a severe event.
https://wmbriggs.com/post/30606/
Yes - apparently if this happened in 1830, (or to be fair to the author, 1950) we mightn't spot COVID-19 as such a severe event.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Apologies for getting a bit sensitive on this but Dingwall is a sociologist specialised on public health, and quite a distinguished one too as far as I know, so he's not exactly speaking outside of his expertise here, as you are implying. He'll certainly know a damn sight more about public health policy than your average doctor or biologist.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:01 pmWho needs doctors, virologists and epidemiologists...
...when you've got a sociologist ready to tell you to "calm down, calm down"?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
None of that makes his views correct of course. I'd ordinarily warn to be careful with a daily mail write up of an expert's opinion, but it appears these actually are his thoughts. It's certainly not something I have heard from any of the other public health sociologists I know, so he appears to be a bit of an outlier, like economists for Brexit or the 1% of climate scientists that the "99% consensus" argument implies must exist. But attacking his expertise is the wrong way to argue this
I've never had a signature, and it never did me any harm
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
Yes - sorry. He has a lot of relevant expertise. However, I would say he's drifted outside his area of expertise by commenting on biological features of the virus, transmission mechanisms, and lethality.warumich wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:50 amApologies for getting a bit sensitive on this but Dingwall is a sociologist specialised on public health, and quite a distinguished one too as far as I know, so he's not exactly speaking outside of his expertise here, as you are implying. He'll certainly know a damn sight more about public health policy than your average doctor or biologist.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:01 pmWho needs doctors, virologists and epidemiologists...
...when you've got a sociologist ready to tell you to "calm down, calm down"?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
And, I would say - in the middle of a pandemic - choosing to write a column for the Daily Express in which he specifically says "It is time to stop 'following the science' " is reckless.
Incidentally, back in May Dingwall was publicly arguing against the 2 metre social distancing rule, and also arguing against even merely "encouraging" everyone to wear masks. He has also publicly criticised the mathematical modelling used by Sage claiming it was "flawed".
He was engaging the public (Express again) with the claim that the virus couldn't infect people over a distance of more than one metre...
"The new data shows it is broken up over a shorter space and those particles that do travel are not in infectious quantities at one metre."
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/he ... s-research
I think this is pretty clearly outside his area of expertise - and turned out to be wrong (e.g. data from a German meat-processing plant has shown transmission over much longer distances via aerosol).
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Re: Reckless public engagement - authorities outside their expertise
P.S. Even back in April he was already arguing for pubs reopening and on March 24th wrote an article in the Telegraph headlined...
"Lockdown is another triumph of populism over science". Yes - on March 24th.
I haven't posted all the links but if you search the Google News archive you'll see his public engagement consists of arguing against masks, social distancing, lockdown in general, pub and school closures in particular etc since March.
"Lockdown is another triumph of populism over science". Yes - on March 24th.
I haven't posted all the links but if you search the Google News archive you'll see his public engagement consists of arguing against masks, social distancing, lockdown in general, pub and school closures in particular etc since March.