Should we have statues at all?

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
Boustrophedon
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2860
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:58 pm
Location: Lincolnshire Wolds

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Boustrophedon » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:43 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 pm
monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm


Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke

The bloke whose family name came from some land they owned in Tyne and Wear. So ultimately named after a UK place. :D
Hjulet snurrar men hamstern är död.

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7526
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by dyqik » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:09 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 pm
monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm


Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke

The bloke whose family name came from some land they owned in Tyne and Wear. So ultimately named after a UK place.
What about the Washington in West Sussex?

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by discovolante » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:17 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:09 pm
Boustrophedon wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 pm
monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm


Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke

The bloke whose family name came from some land they owned in Tyne and Wear. So ultimately named after a UK place.
What about the Washington in West Sussex?
There is also a New York in the Wearside area as well as Washington. Hm.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7526
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by dyqik » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:21 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
It'd be a lot cheaper to rename Boston, Lincolshire than Boston, MA. Likewise for the two Washingtons in the UK.

And New York isn't named after an English city either.

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by monkey » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:25 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 pm
monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm


Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke

The bloke whose family name came from some land they owned in Tyne and Wear. So ultimately named after a UK place.
How about we change people's surnames?

(Washington was a slave owner, anyway)

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8241
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by shpalman » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:41 pm

having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:59 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:21 pm
Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
It'd be a lot cheaper to rename Boston, Lincolshire than Boston, MA. Likewise for the two Washingtons in the UK.

And New York isn't named after an English city either.
According to Wikipedia it’s named for the Duke of York, so yes it is named after an English City.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7526
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by dyqik » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:05 pm

Grumble wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:59 pm
dyqik wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:21 pm
Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
It'd be a lot cheaper to rename Boston, Lincolshire than Boston, MA. Likewise for the two Washingtons in the UK.

And New York isn't named after an English city either.
According to Wikipedia it’s named for the Duke of York, so yes it is named after an English City.
It's named after the Duke of York, who is named after the city of York. The Duke of York is not York.

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by monkey » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:45 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:05 pm
Grumble wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:59 pm
dyqik wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:21 pm

It'd be a lot cheaper to rename Boston, Lincolshire than Boston, MA. Likewise for the two Washingtons in the UK.

And New York isn't named after an English city either.
According to Wikipedia it’s named for the Duke of York, so yes it is named after an English City.
It's named after the Duke of York, who is named after the city of York. The Duke of York is not York.
If you're going to argue that Washington was named after Washington because Washington was named after Washington, then I think that New York being named after York because York was named after York counts too.

(I don't care that much, I just wanted to write that sentence)

User avatar
Gfamily
Light of Blast
Posts: 5180
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Gfamily » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:23 pm

Maryland was named after Eleanor of Aquitaine
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:49 pm

Virginia's name is sl.t-shaming all those other Queens that were shagging around, leaving heirs and such degeneracy.

West Virginia got its name not from the cardinal* direction, but from rapper, activist and presidential candidate Kanye West, who won the tract of land in a high-stakes game of carrom from famous resident Bill Withers.

*Named after the state bird of West Virginia, the Northern Cardinal
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:49 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:49 pm
presidential candidate Kanye West
[Hungarian accent]I will not buy this 2020, it is scratched.[/Hungarian accent]
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:51 pm

Viktor Orbán wrote:This hackneyed unfunny reference to a Monty Python sketch perpetuates negative stereotypes of the Hungarian people, protraying them as effeminate and subservient to Anglo-Saxon businesses. #cancelBOAF
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
JQH
After Pie
Posts: 2141
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by JQH » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:53 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:51 pm
Viktor Orbán wrote:This hackneyed unfunny reference to a Monty Python sketch perpetuates negative stereotypes of the Hungarian people, protraying them as effeminate and subservient to Anglo-Saxon businesses. #cancelBOAF
My hovercraft is full of eels.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
Cardinal Fang
Snowbonk
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:42 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Cardinal Fang » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:35 pm

Drop your panties Sir William, I cannot wait 'til lunchtime
Image

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8241
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by shpalman » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:02 pm

alt.folklore.urban I think it was, had a few rules, one of which was a Ban on Python, on the grounds that yes we all know all the sketches, no need to copy and paste them in all the time, and no need to derp someones subtle reference to Python by making it explicit.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:12 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:02 pm
alt.folklore.urban I think it was, had a few rules, one of which was a Ban on Python, on the grounds that yes we all know all the sketches, no need to copy and paste them in all the time, and no need to derp someones subtle reference to Python by making it explicit.
Heh - something similar was proposed in the Mod Penthouse recently ;)
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Grumble » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:06 pm

I’ve seen odd sketches, presumably the “best” ones, and some of the films, but I don’t think I’ve seen a whole Monty Python episode, if there is such a thing.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by discovolante » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:07 pm

Grumble wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:06 pm
I’ve seen odd sketches, presumably the “best” ones, and some of the films, but I don’t think I’ve seen a whole Monty Python episode, if there is such a thing.
They are better than single repetitive quotes because they often weave the sketches together and so on.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
Tessa K
Light of Blast
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:14 am

Just to bring us back to the OP via Python: https://laughingsquid.com/giant-dead-pa ... well-show/

Image

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Herainestold » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:02 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:12 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:02 pm
alt.folklore.urban I think it was, had a few rules, one of which was a Ban on Python, on the grounds that yes we all know all the sketches, no need to copy and paste them in all the time, and no need to derp someones subtle reference to Python by making it explicit.
Heh - something similar was proposed in the Mod Penthouse recently ;)
Many of their sketches are racist or otherwise problematical. I never really considered it until recently. A blanket ban would not necessarily be a bad idea.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
Gfamily
Light of Blast
Posts: 5180
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:07 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:02 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:12 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:02 pm
alt.folklore.urban I think it was, had a few rules, one of which was a Ban on Python, on the grounds that yes we all know all the sketches, no need to copy and paste them in all the time, and no need to derp someones subtle reference to Python by making it explicit.
Heh - something similar was proposed in the Mod Penthouse recently ;)
Many of their sketches are racist or otherwise problematical. I never really considered it until recently. A blanket ban would not necessarily be a bad idea.
You might think so, I couldn't possibly comment
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:26 pm

Seems a good time to bump this thread - we never really decided if we should have statues or not, as we got a bit derailed (imagine that!) ;)

I like interesting pieces of public art, personally. A lot of older statues kind of fail on that front, because they're just representations of individuals. Even leaving aside the fact that those individuals often turn out to be flawed by the standards of today, and have to be torn down and dropped into Bristol Channel, I think there's a lot more that could be done with the form to engage people, and in general much better ways of telling stories from history. That's not to say we should celebrate individual lives, but I think it makes sense to do so by showing admiration for their values and their works; what they looked like isn't actually that important (though it would be good to redress the current imbalance in public representations of white blokes).
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
basementer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1504
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Location: 8024, Aotearoa
Contact:

Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by basementer » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:17 pm

I'm particularly fond of a couple of unstatuary sculptures personally: Melbourne's "The Public Purse" (a street seat that takes the form of a big purse carved in granite), and Wellington's "Invisible City" (a Braille inscription* in unreadably huge letters on a pair of stainless steel slabs).

* not being able to read it niggled me to research: it's a short poem about Wellington (the city itself, not the Duke) by a blind writer.
Money is just a substitute for luck anyway. - Tom Siddell

Post Reply