Covid-19 the unlockdown

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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Martin_B
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Martin_B » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:07 am

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 am
OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:49 pm
border_reiver wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:22 pm
I've been to Tesco today and came back wanting to annihilate all of humanity. There was no queue and it wasn't actually very busy. I wore my mask and about 1 in 3 of the other customers did. Absolutely no one was taking the slightest notice of distancing...
It’s got a lot worse since they removed the direction arrows the other week. Now it’s a free for all.
Our Tesco hasn't got that bad except that only about 1 in 10 wore a mask. With just a couple of days before they become mandatory, I struggled to imagine what people were thinking: do masks only start helping when they become mandatory?

OTOH, Tesco is almost the only shop I've entered since lockdown and I have never seen masks displayed for sale there. So there is the matter of where people would get them. Doubtless you can find them if you actively search but a lot of people won't.
Here in Western Australia where almost no-one wears a mask and there's no current plans to make people wear them, masks are available in pharmacies, and usually in supermarkets with a reasonable pharmacy selection.
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Sciolus
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Sciolus » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:55 am

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 am
OTOH, Tesco is almost the only shop I've entered since lockdown and I have never seen masks displayed for sale there. So there is the matter of where people would get them. Doubtless you can find them if you actively search but a lot of people won't.
Likewise (not Tesco but...). I would expect every supermarket to have a big wall of packs of masks right by the entrance, and more by the tills. Are there still shortages, or is there not the perceived demand, or am I going in the wrong supermarket?

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by lpm » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:40 pm

Must be shortages. Loads of shops have stacks of hand sanitiser by the tills.

If supermarkets had any sense they'd hand out a free mask to anyone without.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by headshot » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:02 pm

My local Tesco express has masks for sale and they’re very easily ordered online too. I got some from Argos of all places.

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Sciolus
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Sciolus » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:04 pm

If you want people to do stuff, make it easy for them to do it. If you want the whole population to do stuff, make it really, really easy. I don't want to go to a different shop. I don't want to go online. I don't even want to have to look in an aisle in the shop I don't normally go down to find something that I don't know what it looks like amidst all the other stuff I don't care about. Put a f.cking great big display right in front of my face as I walk in, with big flashing neon signs saying BUY ME.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Sciolus » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:11 pm

Or of course Sunak could have spent a tiny fraction of his billions paying people to go round door to door shoving them through people's letterboxes for free.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by headshot » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:40 pm

I was talking about this with someone and we decided that the Govt should be issuing masks to every person in the country, the same way gas masks were issued during the war.

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jdc
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by jdc » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:55 am
Martin Y wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 am
OTOH, Tesco is almost the only shop I've entered since lockdown and I have never seen masks displayed for sale there. So there is the matter of where people would get them. Doubtless you can find them if you actively search but a lot of people won't.
Likewise (not Tesco but...). I would expect every supermarket to have a big wall of packs of masks right by the entrance, and more by the tills. Are there still shortages, or is there not the perceived demand, or am I going in the wrong supermarket?
My local Asda has the wall of masks right by the entrance and they've got more at the tills in case people walked in with their eyes shut.

I'm guessing the reason other supermarkets don't have them is cos Asda beat them to it.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:07 pm

I don't really get what the problem is in the UK. Portugal really isn't the most organised place in the world, and businesses don't tend to have a load of spare cash or extra stock, but after February when the scale of the crisis became apparent, sales of masks shot up 1800% compared to Feb 2019 and frontline national health service workers were having to buy them at exorbitant costs (until the government passed a law allowing them to requisition them).

They then became compulsory in mid-March when we started a (proper) lockdown, and they were never that difficult to find - pharmacies started displaying them in the windows and explaining the different types (disposable, reusable, washable). Once unlockdown started, with mask use being compulsory anywhere indoors, loads of clothes shops started selling more attractive cloth 'social masks'. They're also in supermarkets by the tills, at petrol stations, and so on.

The throwaway ones are about €1 each (cheaper in bulk) and the social ones €5ish+. It's obviously not difficult or expensive for shops to source them, especially with weeks of lead-in time. They can all start stocking garbage like fidget-spinners in no time.

IIRC they were given out for free here, e.g. at public transport stations when (a) only essential journeys were allowed and (b) masks were compulsory, and maybe a rich country like the UK could consider something like that, either handing them out at shops or having designated mask stations (like you can always get free condoms from GPs and sexual health clinics).

For those struggling to find them, my mum has been using them since March and says she's always been able to get them in Boots. I'd assume any pharmacy should have a load, and they're also available online.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:31 pm

They were hard to get in Italy at the beginning, but even before they were mandatory outside almost everyone was wearing something or other on their face. While everyone wears them properly in the supermarket even now, while they were mandatory outside it seemed like you were more likely to see them being worn with the nose out or just as a chin strap. So I think people's attitude to wearing masks, and wearing them properly, coincided with a strong feeling that there really was a lot of covid around. (The province of Como, population 600,000, has officially had about 4000 cases with an average of around 90 per day at the peak but I don't know the deaths or recoveries at province level so I can't really estimate how many undetected cases there were in that phase, maybe a few percent of the total population based on the hospitalization level in Lombardy as a whole, so [1-3]0,000?)

One morning they were being handed out outside the supermarket; now I get given one when I enter the lab. I've seen them for sale inside too, and I've seen "fashion" cloth ones for sale in bars.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:39 pm

Around here loads of cafés/bars/restaurants have branded masks for their staff.

While I put mine on if I'm walking past big groups, especially of old people (they're often milling around by bus stops or in the park), I do confess to pulling it down when nobody's about sometimes - when it's 35° and I'm bustling around I can get a bit moist, which doesn't do masks' efficacy any favours and it's just gross and unpleasant. No big deal inside somewhere with a/c.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:47 pm

For a week or so it hasn't been mandatory to wear them outside here, and it was never mandatory to wear them while exercising as long as you maintain distance from other people.

But I notice there seem to be plenty of people in the gym who just don't seem to bother. (The official rule is to not wear it while actually exercising but maintain 2 metres distance, and to wear it while not exercising but maintain 1 metre distance, and people seem to be ignoring most of this, but at least people seem to be using the paper towels and spray to clean things when they've finished with them. There's alcohol gel in a few spots too.)

Honestly Como is running at a few cases per day and they're "weak positives" so it's probably fair that some things can relax a bit.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by discovolante » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:05 pm

I can't be sure exactly what it was like 2 days before it became mandatory as I can't remember how long it was between going to the shops and the change, but mask usage in Scotland seemed really pretty low until not that long before. It could have been a little while to be fair. It then took a day or so for people to get used to it and then it was pretty much full compliance. So it'll be interesting to see how it pans out on Friday.
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FairySmall
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by FairySmall » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:27 pm

My uni is going to issue masks to all staff and students as they'll be mandatory on campus (when we're actually there, which isn't anytime soon for most of us). There was even talk of uni branded ones before some clever person worked out that displaying our logo with not one, not two, but three symbols related to slavery was perhaps not the smartest idea! :roll:

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Martin Y
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Martin Y » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:33 pm

Shop websites re-jigged for deliveries now having trouble with click-and-collect.

I broke the kettle. In normal times I could google, go to a shop that has one and buy it. Currys/PC World website is not helping. No way to check store stock. Long story short it is possible to discover you can "buy for collection today" at your local shop before you pay. It is not possible to discover this will generate an acknowledgement telling you Not To Travel Yet as a further email will instruct you on how to collect. Any you'll need your credit card number and your car's registration number.

So that was an hour ago. They've either got the kettle or they f.cking don't and they said "today" and they already have my money. Annoyed now.

<edit> And while I was posting an email arrived - "Hi Martin. We've cancelled your order and no payment has been taken".

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by JQH » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:41 pm

Down at Sainsbury's this morning only about half the customers (and staff) were wearing masks.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:21 am

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 am
OTOH, Tesco is almost the only shop I've entered since lockdown and I have never seen masks displayed for sale there. So there is the matter of where people would get them. Doubtless you can find them if you actively search but a lot of people won't.
Get them here: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /306955202

I have seen them in Tesco. On one occasion a big display just inside the door, and on another hidden away at the back on the end of an aisle. You can even order them from Amazon if you don't want to leave the house without one.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by bolo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:33 am

Once upon a time masks were hard to get. That simply isn't true any more. We have at least a dozen washable fabric ones in various styles and colors, and the last box of disposables I bought from Amazon was less than $30 for a pack of 50 with free delivery in a couple of days. If you don't have a mask, you're not paying attention.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:59 am

I popped into my local Spar yesterday, during the time I was there I was the only one in a mask, although as I left someone was just putting one on to go in. I didn’t wear it on the walk there or back though. I just popped it out of my pocket and back in after.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:54 am

The price is capped at €0.50 for disposable ones here so I bought a pack of ten in the supermarket.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Opti » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:47 pm

I foresee new 'lockdown' measures here in Andalusia imminently. Bars and restaurants appear to be the cause of most concern. Of course, masks are mandatory when you're out and about already. But not in bars and restaurants. Obviously.
I had to go to Marbella yesterday, sadly. Sadly, also, the people risking a €100 fine appeared to be mostly tourists.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:56 pm

So the law in the UK is just now more of a guideline than a rule and you can just choose to ignore it based on whether you can be bothered?

Given that masks should have been made mandatory back in March so doing it only now looks kind of pointless as far as the aksually masks don't aksually stop you getting covid brigade are concerned,* you still have about 600 new cases a day and I reckon it's been trending upwards for the past couple of weeks since the government gave the virus a head start against masks.

* - they have a point, in terms of the government having completely lost control of the situation, but it's never too late to do the right thing.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:09 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:56 pm
So the law in the UK is just now more of a guideline than a rule and you can just choose to ignore it based on whether you can be bothered?

Given that masks should have been made mandatory back in March so doing it only now looks kind of pointless as far as the aksually masks don't aksually stop you getting covid brigade are concerned,* you still have about 600 new cases a day and I reckon it's been trending upwards for the past couple of weeks since the government gave the virus a head start against masks.

* - they have a point, in terms of the government having completely lost control of the situation, but it's never too late to do the right thing.
To be fair, minimum-wage shelf-stackers shouldn't have to open themselves up to abuse from potentially infected people. The legislation states that the police are responsible for enforcing the law, rather than supermarkets, which seems fair enough. Though if every shop needs a cop that'll soon become unworkable.
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shpalman
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:15 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:09 pm
shpalman wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:56 pm
So the law in the UK is just now more of a guideline than a rule and you can just choose to ignore it based on whether you can be bothered?

Given that masks should have been made mandatory back in March so doing it only now looks kind of pointless as far as the aksually masks don't aksually stop you getting covid brigade are concerned,* you still have about 600 new cases a day and I reckon it's been trending upwards for the past couple of weeks since the government gave the virus a head start against masks.

* - they have a point, in terms of the government having completely lost control of the situation, but it's never too late to do the right thing.
To be fair, minimum-wage shelf-stackers shouldn't have to open themselves up to abuse from potentially infected people. The legislation states that the police are responsible for enforcing the law, rather than supermarkets, which seems fair enough. Though if every shop needs a cop that'll soon become unworkable.
So they can get a big guy to stand outside and refuse to let anyone in who won't wear a mask, and if it escalates they call the police. Shops already have security guards, right?

Meanwhile the local police randomly checks shops to see that the rules are being followed, and if they aren't, the shop gets closed down for a few days.

That's how it's been working here.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:24 pm

f.cking hell guys.

Put your shoes on. No you can't go out in your bare feet, you'll hurt them. Put your shoes on. I don't care if you've drawn faces on your toes, you need to put your shoes on. You like your shoes! They light up when you walk. You told me you wanted them when were in the shop and promised you'd wear them. Ok if you put your shoes on we can go to the park later. Yes you can feed the ducks. No you can't take your shoes off to feed the ducks. Yes, everyone else will have shoes on. Put them on. Put them on. No don't take your coat off now. I know you're too hot, it's because you've been wearing your coat indoors for the last ten minutes while we've been arguing about your shoes. Put your shoes on. Put them...OK fine you can go in your wellies.
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