Starmer

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EACLucifer
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Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:39 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:38 pm
But I'm not sure what point lpm is trying to make by exaggerating the scale of antisemitism in Labour for political reasons.
There's no exaggeration.

Corbyn gave money to a f.cking holocaust denier years after he became notorious as a holocaust denier in exactly the circles Corbyn frequented - this literally included an essay by the aforementioned holocaust denier called "my life as a holocaust denier" - and Corbyn was patron of the PSC, an organisation that expelled the holocaust denier in question but only after acrimonious debate that could not have been missed by anyone with even a passing acquaintance with that realm of politics.

Corbyn repeatedly campaigned alongside and platformed all sorts of antisemites, many of them also misogynist and homophobic - but couldn't be arsed to show up to campaign in any meaningful sense for Labour party policy against Brexit. He was happy to stand on a stage surrounded by the flags of the fascist terrorist group Hezbollah, but wouldn't share a stage with Cameron to oppose Brexit - likely because he was a lifelong europhobe and stooge for anything anti-western.

He employed a director of communications that was an active member of the Stalin society and who praised the "resistance" in Afghanistan and Iraq at a time when this could only be referring to the Taliban and Islamic State.

Corbyn was also on the f.cking payroll of a propaganda channel for a misogynist, racist and murderously homophobic fascist regime, taking part in their propaganda. His involvement with them ultimately ended when they were forced off British airwaves for failing to pay fines, probably because he was no longer any use to them. The fines they failed to pay were for complicity in torture - broadcasting confessions obtained by torture, to be specific - and Corbyn did not stop working for them when it became apparent they were complicit in torture, staying with them for the year or so between that finding and their demise on British airwaves.

Corbyn loyalists at council level selected promoters of holocaust denial and open white supremacists* to be council candidates in full knowledge of what they were. Corbyn placemen in the disciplinary system protected them in full knowledge of what they did.

Corbyn defended anobviously antisemitic mural, and protested against the removal of that public display of bigotry.

Corbyn liked to hang out on a notorious facebook group rife with grotesque antisemitism and rife with antisemites and conspiracy theorists.

Corbyn personally engaged in antisemitic conspiracy theorising when he talked about "the hand of Israel" being involved in a terrorist attack in the Sinai. The attack, targetting Egyptians, was carried out by Islamist extremists.

Though not directly related to antisemitism, Corbyn also supported denial of genocide in the Balkans - including Srebenica - in parliament.

Throughout this on the old forum, the defence of Corbyn was characterised by dishonesty and cowardice, with his defenders not only repeating debunked lies, but refusing to engage with reams of evidence. Sadly, that's gone now, because debunking the b.llsh.t excuses and sourcing the details of the bigotry was a morally exhausting exercises. For every dishonest repetition of a feeble excuses - eg the claim that Paul Eisen wasn't exposed as a holocaust denier until after Corbyn gave him money** - I would have to trawl through reams of some the vilest material out there, notably murderous homophobia, despicable misogyny, holocaust denial, racist conspiracy theory and all forms of antisemitism. Indeed, the bigotry against Jews in certain sections of the far left is such that it goes full circle, and material from the far right can be found involved too.

The only problem with expelling Corbyn for this in 2020 is that he should have been expelled long, long ago. Acting as a propagandist for the despicable Iranian regime should have been instant expulsion. Donating money to the open holocaust denier Paul Eisen long after he was known to be a holocaust denier should have been instant expulsion. Perhaps if Labour had a sensible leader, one who did not refuse to campaign for the Labour party's position because he personall disagreed with it for lunatic reasons, Brexit might have been averted. Either way, if Labour had a more talented and less repellant leader, we would not have ended up with a Johnson majority, with the horrifying damage it is currently causing.

I really don't have the energy to spare to dig through the cesspits of online antisemitism where many of Corbyn's most fanatic supporters dwell, or where the evidence of his imbrication with all sorts of antisemites is to be found. But if I have to, I'll do it. Racism is too serious to ignore, or allow others to misrepresent.

But I seriously suggest you do not f.cking try me.



*I know the term covers a range of positions these days, but the guys Alan Bull promoted were of the "Christianity is a Jewish plot against true white aryans" school of white supremacy, from a website that offered to give out free books by leading members of the Nazi party

**The essay about being a holocaust denier was published in 2008, can't remember exactly when the expulsion from the PSC was, but he was being openly discussed as a holocaust denier in PSC circles not long after that, and certainly by 2012, when another antisemite was expelled from the PSC, while Corbyn was giving money to the holocaust denier at least as late as 2014, a year before his leadership campaign. And yes, I did have to go on the website of a f.cking holocaust denier to verify the dates involved, which is the sort of thing I mean when I say it is morally exhausting

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Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:47 pm

so... I take it you're not displeased with Starmer today then?
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Re: Starmer

Post by lpm » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:53 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:39 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:38 pm
But I'm not sure what point lpm is trying to make by exaggerating the scale of antisemitism in Labour for political reasons.
There's no exaggeration.

Corbyn gave money to a f.cking holocaust denier years after he became notorious as a holocaust denier in exactly the circles Corbyn frequented - this literally included an essay by the aforementioned holocaust denier called "my life as a holocaust denier" - and Corbyn was patron of the PSC, an organisation that expelled the holocaust denier in question but only after acrimonious debate that could not have been missed by anyone with even a passing acquaintance with that realm of politics.

Corbyn repeatedly campaigned alongside and platformed all sorts of antisemites, many of them also misogynist and homophobic - but couldn't be arsed to show up to campaign in any meaningful sense for Labour party policy against Brexit. He was happy to stand on a stage surrounded by the flags of the fascist terrorist group Hezbollah, but wouldn't share a stage with Cameron to oppose Brexit - likely because he was a lifelong europhobe and stooge for anything anti-western.

He employed a director of communications that was an active member of the Stalin society and who praised the "resistance" in Afghanistan and Iraq at a time when this could only be referring to the Taliban and Islamic State.

Corbyn was also on the f.cking payroll of a propaganda channel for a misogynist, racist and murderously homophobic fascist regime, taking part in their propaganda. His involvement with them ultimately ended when they were forced off British airwaves for failing to pay fines, probably because he was no longer any use to them. The fines they failed to pay were for complicity in torture - broadcasting confessions obtained by torture, to be specific - and Corbyn did not stop working for them when it became apparent they were complicit in torture, staying with them for the year or so between that finding and their demise on British airwaves.

Corbyn loyalists at council level selected promoters of holocaust denial and open white supremacists* to be council candidates in full knowledge of what they were. Corbyn placemen in the disciplinary system protected them in full knowledge of what they did.

Corbyn defended anobviously antisemitic mural, and protested against the removal of that public display of bigotry.

Corbyn liked to hang out on a notorious facebook group rife with grotesque antisemitism and rife with antisemites and conspiracy theorists.

Corbyn personally engaged in antisemitic conspiracy theorising when he talked about "the hand of Israel" being involved in a terrorist attack in the Sinai. The attack, targetting Egyptians, was carried out by Islamist extremists.

Though not directly related to antisemitism, Corbyn also supported denial of genocide in the Balkans - including Srebenica - in parliament.

Throughout this on the old forum, the defence of Corbyn was characterised by dishonesty and cowardice, with his defenders not only repeating debunked lies, but refusing to engage with reams of evidence. Sadly, that's gone now, because debunking the b.llsh.t excuses and sourcing the details of the bigotry was a morally exhausting exercises. For every dishonest repetition of a feeble excuses - eg the claim that Paul Eisen wasn't exposed as a holocaust denier until after Corbyn gave him money** - I would have to trawl through reams of some the vilest material out there, notably murderous homophobia, despicable misogyny, holocaust denial, racist conspiracy theory and all forms of antisemitism. Indeed, the bigotry against Jews in certain sections of the far left is such that it goes full circle, and material from the far right can be found involved too.

The only problem with expelling Corbyn for this in 2020 is that he should have been expelled long, long ago. Acting as a propagandist for the despicable Iranian regime should have been instant expulsion. Donating money to the open holocaust denier Paul Eisen long after he was known to be a holocaust denier should have been instant expulsion. Perhaps if Labour had a sensible leader, one who did not refuse to campaign for the Labour party's position because he personall disagreed with it for lunatic reasons, Brexit might have been averted. Either way, if Labour had a more talented and less repellant leader, we would not have ended up with a Johnson majority, with the horrifying damage it is currently causing.

I really don't have the energy to spare to dig through the cesspits of online antisemitism where many of Corbyn's most fanatic supporters dwell, or where the evidence of his imbrication with all sorts of antisemites is to be found. But if I have to, I'll do it. Racism is too serious to ignore, or allow others to misrepresent.

But I seriously suggest you do not f.cking try me.



*I know the term covers a range of positions these days, but the guys Alan Bull promoted were of the "Christianity is a Jewish plot against true white aryans" school of white supremacy, from a website that offered to give out free books by leading members of the Nazi party

**The essay about being a holocaust denier was published in 2008, can't remember exactly when the expulsion from the PSC was, but he was being openly discussed as a holocaust denier in PSC circles not long after that, and certainly by 2012, when another antisemite was expelled from the PSC, while Corbyn was giving money to the holocaust denier at least as late as 2014, a year before his leadership campaign. And yes, I did have to go on the website of a f.cking holocaust denier to verify the dates involved, which is the sort of thing I mean when I say it is morally exhausting
Pah, that's a long post, but Tom P will be able to dismiss all of it with a 11 word sentence, 7 of those words being used to insult you.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:59 pm

Thanks for the recap, EACL. No disagreement from me that Corbyn did those things, and I don't think his record on dealing with antisemitism is defensible.
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Re: Starmer

Post by dyqik » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:37 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:28 pm
I've never seen a tailor either, but I probably would've done if I'd served as Director of Public Prosecutions.
Yeah, me too.

Or leader of the Labour party, for that matter.

Or probably even just as an MP. They're all pretty loaded, and if you've got to wear a suit all day it might as well be a comfortable one.

I am thinking about getting a proper suit made next time work/family takes me to a developing country.
I went to a tailor, cost me $400 for suit for my wedding. Vs £300 for a non-tailored suit from Marks and Spencer. And I'm an odd shape, so off the peg suits do not fit me at all.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:16 pm

My wedding suit was under €100 in Zara. I have barely worn it since so that's by far the most I've ever spent on clothes especially after adjusting for use ;)

I'm a weird shape too so I do get the appeal of clothes that actually fit.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:19 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:39 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:38 pm
But I'm not sure what point lpm is trying to make by exaggerating the scale of antisemitism in Labour for political reasons.
There's no exaggeration.

Corbyn gave money to a f.cking holocaust denier years after he became notorious as a holocaust denier in exactly the circles Corbyn frequented - this literally included an essay by the aforementioned holocaust denier called "my life as a holocaust denier" - and Corbyn was patron of the PSC, an organisation that expelled the holocaust denier in question but only after acrimonious debate that could not have been missed by anyone with even a passing acquaintance with that realm of politics.

Corbyn repeatedly campaigned alongside and platformed all sorts of antisemites, many of them also misogynist and homophobic - but couldn't be arsed to show up to campaign in any meaningful sense for Labour party policy against Brexit. He was happy to stand on a stage surrounded by the flags of the fascist terrorist group Hezbollah, but wouldn't share a stage with Cameron to oppose Brexit - likely because he was a lifelong europhobe and stooge for anything anti-western.

He employed a director of communications that was an active member of the Stalin society and who praised the "resistance" in Afghanistan and Iraq at a time when this could only be referring to the Taliban and Islamic State.

Corbyn was also on the f.cking payroll of a propaganda channel for a misogynist, racist and murderously homophobic fascist regime, taking part in their propaganda. His involvement with them ultimately ended when they were forced off British airwaves for failing to pay fines, probably because he was no longer any use to them. The fines they failed to pay were for complicity in torture - broadcasting confessions obtained by torture, to be specific - and Corbyn did not stop working for them when it became apparent they were complicit in torture, staying with them for the year or so between that finding and their demise on British airwaves.

Corbyn loyalists at council level selected promoters of holocaust denial and open white supremacists* to be council candidates in full knowledge of what they were. Corbyn placemen in the disciplinary system protected them in full knowledge of what they did.

Corbyn defended anobviously antisemitic mural, and protested against the removal of that public display of bigotry.

Corbyn liked to hang out on a notorious facebook group rife with grotesque antisemitism and rife with antisemites and conspiracy theorists.

Corbyn personally engaged in antisemitic conspiracy theorising when he talked about "the hand of Israel" being involved in a terrorist attack in the Sinai. The attack, targetting Egyptians, was carried out by Islamist extremists.

Though not directly related to antisemitism, Corbyn also supported denial of genocide in the Balkans - including Srebenica - in parliament.

Throughout this on the old forum, the defence of Corbyn was characterised by dishonesty and cowardice, with his defenders not only repeating debunked lies, but refusing to engage with reams of evidence. Sadly, that's gone now, because debunking the b.llsh.t excuses and sourcing the details of the bigotry was a morally exhausting exercises. For every dishonest repetition of a feeble excuses - eg the claim that Paul Eisen wasn't exposed as a holocaust denier until after Corbyn gave him money** - I would have to trawl through reams of some the vilest material out there, notably murderous homophobia, despicable misogyny, holocaust denial, racist conspiracy theory and all forms of antisemitism. Indeed, the bigotry against Jews in certain sections of the far left is such that it goes full circle, and material from the far right can be found involved too.

The only problem with expelling Corbyn for this in 2020 is that he should have been expelled long, long ago. Acting as a propagandist for the despicable Iranian regime should have been instant expulsion. Donating money to the open holocaust denier Paul Eisen long after he was known to be a holocaust denier should have been instant expulsion. Perhaps if Labour had a sensible leader, one who did not refuse to campaign for the Labour party's position because he personall disagreed with it for lunatic reasons, Brexit might have been averted. Either way, if Labour had a more talented and less repellant leader, we would not have ended up with a Johnson majority, with the horrifying damage it is currently causing.

I really don't have the energy to spare to dig through the cesspits of online antisemitism where many of Corbyn's most fanatic supporters dwell, or where the evidence of his imbrication with all sorts of antisemites is to be found. But if I have to, I'll do it. Racism is too serious to ignore, or allow others to misrepresent.

But I seriously suggest you do not f.cking try me.



*I know the term covers a range of positions these days, but the guys Alan Bull promoted were of the "Christianity is a Jewish plot against true white aryans" school of white supremacy, from a website that offered to give out free books by leading members of the Nazi party

**The essay about being a holocaust denier was published in 2008, can't remember exactly when the expulsion from the PSC was, but he was being openly discussed as a holocaust denier in PSC circles not long after that, and certainly by 2012, when another antisemite was expelled from the PSC, while Corbyn was giving money to the holocaust denier at least as late as 2014, a year before his leadership campaign. And yes, I did have to go on the website of a f.cking holocaust denier to verify the dates involved, which is the sort of thing I mean when I say it is morally exhausting
So clearly a plot by the darstadly Blairites then

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Re: Starmer

Post by shpalman » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm

... but we can't have a labour leader which people might actually vote for because something something Iraq war.

Seriously, though, thank you EACL for everything you've done to bring the truth to light regarding Corbyn.
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Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:40 pm

the grauniad wrote:There was an atmosphere of shock and dismay in Labour HQ after Corbyn’s statement was published shortly before 11am, according to party sources. “It was total disbelief that he would put that out,” one adviser said.

A senior Labour source said the deputy leader, Angela Rayner, spoke to Corbyn and his team and urged him to apologise and issue a clarification in a televised clip he recorded at lunchtime, but he did not do so. Labour announced his suspension at 1pm, with Corbyn finding out from a cameraman as he left a community centre in north London.

It is understood that Corbyn did not intend to make his statement a direct challenge to Starmer despite suspicions among senior Labour figures that he was “goading Keir”.
Apart from everything else, Corbyn is a bit dense.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:56 pm

AMS wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:40 pm
the grauniad wrote:There was an atmosphere of shock and dismay in Labour HQ after Corbyn’s statement was published shortly before 11am, according to party sources. “It was total disbelief that he would put that out,” one adviser said.

A senior Labour source said the deputy leader, Angela Rayner, spoke to Corbyn and his team and urged him to apologise and issue a clarification in a televised clip he recorded at lunchtime, but he did not do so. Labour announced his suspension at 1pm, with Corbyn finding out from a cameraman as he left a community centre in north London.

It is understood that Corbyn did not intend to make his statement a direct challenge to Starmer despite suspicions among senior Labour figures that he was “goading Keir”.
Apart from everything else, Corbyn is a bit dense.
I don't think you appreciate the subtlety of Corbyn's tactics here. He's clearly seen the error if his ways so is doing everything he can to strengthen Starmer's leadership and boost Labour's poll ratings

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Re: Starmer

Post by Brightonian » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:00 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:26 pm
It's going to be a shitshow isn't it :(

I came onto this thread to post the Daily Fail article about Starmer crashing into a cyclist "on the way to his tailor", and make some remark about how that incident exemplifies several differences between the two leaders. Maybe something about Starmer didn't see the cyclist, but Corbyn's never seen a tailor, I dunno.

Mind you, I've never seen a tailor either: I'm not a nineteenth century aristocrat, don't wear fancy dress and I'm not loaded.
From that there Twitter, "That's the second cyclist Keir Starmer has run over in less than a week".

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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:55 am

shpalman wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm
... but we can't have a labour leader which people might actually vote for because something something Iraq war.

Seriously, though, thank you EACL for everything you've done to bring the truth to light regarding Corbyn.
Surely the Iraq war is worse than Corbyn's antisemitism though? I mean, I may be misremembering, but didn't quite a lot of people die? So if Corbyn's crimes against Jews, which as far as we are aware are entirely symbolic, make him a legitimate target for righteous opprobrium, why is The Left ridiculous for holding Iraq against people?

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Re: Starmer

Post by shpalman » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:55 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm
... but we can't have a labour leader which people might actually vote for because something something Iraq war.

Seriously, though, thank you EACL for everything you've done to bring the truth to light regarding Corbyn.
Surely the Iraq war is worse than Corbyn's antisemitism though? I mean, I may be misremembering, but didn't quite a lot of people die? So if Corbyn's crimes against Jews, which as far as we are aware are entirely symbolic, make him a legitimate target for righteous opprobrium, why is The Left ridiculous for holding Iraq against people?
Because it was about ten years ago, it's not like having an electable centrist labour leader is going to start it up again.
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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:11 am

shpalman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:55 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm
... but we can't have a labour leader which people might actually vote for because something something Iraq war.

Seriously, though, thank you EACL for everything you've done to bring the truth to light regarding Corbyn.
Surely the Iraq war is worse than Corbyn's antisemitism though? I mean, I may be misremembering, but didn't quite a lot of people die? So if Corbyn's crimes against Jews, which as far as we are aware are entirely symbolic, make him a legitimate target for righteous opprobrium, why is The Left ridiculous for holding Iraq against people?
Because it was about ten years ago, it's not like having an electable centrist labour leader is going to start it up again.
Well I mean the holocaust was quite a long time ago too, and I don't think Corbyn was planning on starting that up again either. On the other hand a nice electable centrist Labour leader might well go along with the next large scale war crime opportunity that comes along. Which is something that The Left, fools that they are, are keen to avoid.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:30 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:11 am
Well I mean the holocaust was quite a long time ago too, and I don't think Corbyn was planning on starting that up again either. On the other hand a nice electable centrist Labour leader might well go along with the next large scale war crime opportunity that comes along. Which is something that The Left, fools that they are, are keen to avoid.
The Left does have a long history of going along with war crimes, just so long as they are committed by leftists.

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Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:35 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:11 am
shpalman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:55 am


Surely the Iraq war is worse than Corbyn's antisemitism though? I mean, I may be misremembering, but didn't quite a lot of people die? So if Corbyn's crimes against Jews, which as far as we are aware are entirely symbolic, make him a legitimate target for righteous opprobrium, why is The Left ridiculous for holding Iraq against people?
Because it was about ten years ago, it's not like having an electable centrist labour leader is going to start it up again.
Well I mean the holocaust was quite a long time ago too, and I don't think Corbyn was planning on starting that up again either. On the other hand a nice electable centrist Labour leader might well go along with the next large scale war crime opportunity that comes along. Which is something that The Left, fools that they are, are keen to avoid.
He worked for a regime that hangs people for being gay.

He employed in a crucial role a man who praised the Taliban and Islamic State.

He supported genocide denial in parliament in an early day motion that tried to launder the reputation of Milosevic.

Pretty clear he'd be just fine with war criminals as long as they were on his side.

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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:46 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:30 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:11 am
Well I mean the holocaust was quite a long time ago too, and I don't think Corbyn was planning on starting that up again either. On the other hand a nice electable centrist Labour leader might well go along with the next large scale war crime opportunity that comes along. Which is something that The Left, fools that they are, are keen to avoid.
The Left does have a long history of going along with war crimes, just so long as they are committed by leftists.
Unfortunately that is true. But Leftist regimes have usually existed in states of dire emergency, teetering on the brink of collapse from the combined might of the traditional imperial powers arrayed against them. This does not excuse the atrocities, but can go some way to explaining why they were felt to be necessary. The Iraq war on the other hand was entirely unforced. A pure exercise of Western military chauvinism.

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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:48 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:35 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:11 am
shpalman wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 am

Because it was about ten years ago, it's not like having an electable centrist labour leader is going to start it up again.
Well I mean the holocaust was quite a long time ago too, and I don't think Corbyn was planning on starting that up again either. On the other hand a nice electable centrist Labour leader might well go along with the next large scale war crime opportunity that comes along. Which is something that The Left, fools that they are, are keen to avoid.
He worked for a regime that hangs people for being gay.

He employed in a crucial role a man who praised the Taliban and Islamic State.

He supported genocide denial in parliament in an early day motion that tried to launder the reputation of Milosevic.

Pretty clear he'd be just fine with war criminals as long as they were on his side.
Well, we can speculate about what Corbyn would or would not do given power. But when it comes to the Blairites despised by the Left we don't have to speculate, because they actually did take Britain into an illegal war resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. So please dismount your high horse.

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Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:13 am

Corbyn wouldn't send soldiers in anywhere, for any reason. He wouldn't have sent forces to Sierra Leone, for instance. And many people would've died as a result.

I mean, it would be nice if there could be a discussion of Labour leaders without reference to the f.cking Iraq war. Blair did it, yes. Starmer probably wouldn't. Especially not now, with the context of how Blair is seen.

Also, the Iraq war began nearly twenty years ago, not ten. And after it began, Blair went on to win another general election. So clearly it wasn't seen as the war crime that Corbynites insist it was.
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Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:19 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:48 am
So please dismount your high horse.
Nah, it gives me a nice vantage point to look down on you and your whataboutery.

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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:29 am

Well, since the overwhelmingly British middle class Liberals of scrutable have apparently decided the Iraq war is nbd I guess we can go back to the serious business of excoriating Corbyn for liking anti-Semitic murals and getting on stage with Islamists.

secret squirrel
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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:35 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:19 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:48 am
So please dismount your high horse.
Nah, it gives me a nice vantage point to look down on you and your whataboutery.
Nice whataboutery in accusing me of whataboutery there.

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lpm
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Re: Starmer

Post by lpm » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:41 am

If what-about-the-Iraq-War isn't whataboutery, what the f.ck would be?
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

plodder
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Re: Starmer

Post by plodder » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:42 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:29 am
Well, since the overwhelmingly British middle class Liberals of scrutable have apparently decided the Iraq war is nbd I guess we can go back to the serious business of excoriating Corbyn for liking anti-Semitic murals and getting on stage with Islamists.
Old commies are often not the nicest bunch, but in practical terms the worst thing about them is that they’re unelectable.

secret squirrel
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Re: Starmer

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:43 am

lpm wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:41 am
If what-about-the-Iraq-War isn't whataboutery, what the f.ck would be?
It's not whataboutery if it's relevant.

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