Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

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Bagheera
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Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Bagheera » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:35 pm

Hi all,

Anyone know of a comprehensive fact-checking of the letter written by Ian Brown (of The Stone Roses) in reply to Martin Rossiter (of Gene), challenging Brown's covid-conspiracy tweets?

Direct link to screenshots of the letter, on Brown's Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1 ... e_internal

I have acquaintances who are circulating these pics, and I don't have the time (and energy) to deal with every point, so if someone has already refuted these claims in one place, that would be super useful.

Thanks!

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Woodchopper
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Sorry, that's going to take a while to fisk. And I don't know of someone who has.

Some of that is new to me. Like Rockefeller having invented cancer treatments as a way to sell oil byproducts ... Gosh.

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jdc
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by jdc » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:27 pm

More importantly, have you heard his anti-lockdown song? https://www.nme.com/news/music/ian-brow ... ee-2756322

f.cking dreadful. It might actually be worse than the Roses' horrific All For One.

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by yoss » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:50 pm

I realise it's a very small sample size but ... something, something, something ... effects of thirty years of heavy dope use.

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Grumble
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Grumble » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:14 pm

yoss wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:50 pm
I realise it's a very small sample size but ... something, something, something ... effects of thirty years of heavy dope use.
Counterpoint - optimystic
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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jimbob
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by jimbob » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:28 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:03 pm
Sorry, that's going to take a while to fisk. And I don't know of someone who has.

Some of that is new to me. Like Rockefeller having invented cancer treatments as a way to sell oil byproducts ... Gosh.
And there's nothing actually there in *that* post.

The Rockefeller Cancer Institute was set up in 1986. And why would that have anything to do with trying to make them wealthy?

It's a bit like conspiracy theories about Bill Gates.

Step 1 - Become richest man in the world
Step 2 - Give billions of dollars away for various philanthropic causes
Step 3 - Give billions into vaccine research for nefarious purposes
Step 4 - make loads of money from step 3 (the how is so trivial, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader, as indeed is the why)
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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bob sterman
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by bob sterman » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:33 pm

Well he refers to "Doctors, Virologists, Epidemiologists, Surgeons and Medical Professors" questioning the "narrative" but then lists the Youtube diet guru book guy Ivor Cummins as one of them, who is none of these things. So that's one fact checked.

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Stephanie
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Stephanie » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:24 pm

Right, just a quick google through some of it.

First page, paragraph 3:
The Rockefeller Foundation was founded in 1913, I assume that is where he got the date?

Suspect this might be the source of the Flexner report part https://www.cancertruth.net/ama-history ... DImAr.dpbs, Ty Bollinger's Truth About Cancer series debunked here https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-tr ... ut-cancer/

Paragraph 4:
In terms of time doctors spend studying nutrition - could be true, BBC article here, though I note Dr Aseem Malhotra was one of those included, Angry Chef wrote about him here https://angry-chef.com/blog/the-most-po ... e-universe

Paragraph 5:
Dr Yeadon is, I assume Dr Mike Yeadon, who apparently blogs on Toby Young's Lockdown Sceptics site https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/. Professor Carl Heneghan was one of those, along with Professor Sunetra Gupta, who wrote an open letter to the government against their lockdown plans, letter in this tweet https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/sta ... 1463212032 - Science Media Centre has some reactions here https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expe ... nd-others/. As I understand it, the letter got a fair bit of press, so unsure how they are brave souls who won't be seen on tv. Interesting that they are probably seen as the less "woo" of the bunch.

Then we get to Vernon Coleman... AIDS denialist... nice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman and also no longer a GP
He is no longer registered or licensed to practise as a GP principal, having relinquished his medical licence in March 2016.
A leaflet possibly written by him, or just spread by someone else, was condemned by sufferers of covid amongst others https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/c ... -in-perth/
https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/1 ... x-leaflet/

Then we have Dr Andrew Kaufman, a psychiatrist who has made a bunch of videos about Covid - written about here https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... es-reality

Dr Mohammad Adil has been suspended for saying covid is a hoax https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/370/bmj.m2714.full.pdf

Professor Dolores Cahill, covered here https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.4277698

World Doctors Alliance, sigh, here https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/docto ... flu-virus/

Assume we're all familiar with Robert Kennedy Jr, but here's an article anyway, from his own family no less https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... nes-226798

Paragraph 6:
Nightingale hospitals did remain empty - possibly a good sign though? Some doctors complained it didn't have the facilities needed to care for complex patients anyway https://www.ft.com/content/09897050-13b ... b8d2ab5781

Piece here looking at some of the claims and spread of the empty hospitals stuff https://www.jmir.org/2020/10/e22374

Learning Disability England were concerned about DNRs https://www.learningdisabilityengland.o ... st-update/, though the NHS apparently wrote letters confirming that these should be decided on an individual basis, not blanket done https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/ ... DNACPR.pdf. This also reiterates the in consultation with family part https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/ ... l-2020.pdf.

Paragraph 7:
Care homes aspect was bad, our very own mikeh wrote about it on his Medium blog https://medium.com/@michael.g.head/unsp ... dacd263130

I'll have a look at the rest after dinner.
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Stephanie
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Stephanie » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:50 pm

Page 2

Paragraph 2 (though technically the bit at the top is a continuation of the previous one, but f.ck it):
Fact check of claims about Professor Neil Ferguson here https://theferret.scot/fact-check-neil- ... edictions/. Assuming the Gates connected part is that the MRC Centre receives funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, as per this article https://www.businessinsider.com/neil-fe ... ?r=US&IR=T.
6 people from Wuhan stuff appears to have come from this thread https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/ ... 3985836032

Obviously we know the shagging was true, so Ian can have that one.

Paragraph 3:
Bill Gates father was a Rockefeller lawyer? Well, I can find a Bill Gates Sr, who was a lawyer, his wiki here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates_Sr. and his obit here - can't see any mention that he was a Rockefeller lawyer https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/busi ... -dead.html. I mean, he still could be - but when I searched "bill gates father rockefeller lawyer" amusingly, this chap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Taylor_Gates came up as the featured snippet :) Could this be the source?

Was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation thrown out of India? Full Fact says no https://fullfact.org/online/gates-polio-vaccine/
Do they own shares in Monsanto? This Guardian article says yes, but obviously doesn't approve https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... m-monsanto

Paragraph 5:
Total compensation for the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Programme is $4.4 billion according to their latest report here https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/file ... report.pdf. I don't think anyone here would argue that those who are unfortunately injured by vaccines shouldn't have compensation, but to put it into perspective, they do also point out:
According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2018 over 3.7 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 7,527 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 5,270 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately 1 individual was compensated.
Are vaccine makers lobbying for similar protections for covid? Yes, according to this FT article https://www.ft.com/content/12f7da5b-92c ... 26b75eef4d
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

Bagheera
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Bagheera » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:52 am

Stephanie, I am astounded by the amount of effort you've gone to. Thank you so much. Just fantastic.

Now how to get the Plandemickers to read this?

🤔

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by jimbob » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:46 pm

Bagheera wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:52 am
Stephanie, I am astounded by the amount of effort you've gone to. Thank you so much. Just fantastic.

Now how to get the Plandemickers to read this?

🤔
likewise
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by JQH » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:43 pm

jimbob wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:46 pm
Bagheera wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:52 am
Stephanie, I am astounded by the amount of effort you've gone to. Thank you so much. Just fantastic.

Now how to get the Plandemickers to read this?

🤔
likewise
Yes, great work Stephanie, thanks.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Stephanie
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Stephanie » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:08 pm

Page 3

Paragraph 1:
Survival is 99.9%+ - Full Fact have this on covid-19 recovery rates https://fullfact.org/health/Covid-recovery-vaccine/.
Median average death age is 82.4 years - article that includes it in FT https://www.ft.com/content/879f2a2b-e36 ... 1326d40b5e, though they have taken it from the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/1 ... l-reveals/. Other articles (The Daily Mail and The Sun) suggest the figure has been reached by an analysis from the Centre for Evidence Based Medicine.

Dunno about nine out of ten people specifically showing no symptoms, but the BBC reported in July that majority showed no symptoms https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53320155

Full Fact have also got something on the Kary Mullis claim and PCR testing https://fullfact.org/online/pcr-test-mullis/

Paragraph 2:
The Guardian have an article about a Digital Health passport, CommonPass, that does have the backing of WEF, but it appears to just be for flights at this stage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... l-covid-19

Obviously plenty of criticism about WEF, some of which is on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Eco ... #Criticism

Vaccine refusal - as far as it stands, they aren't mandatory yet according to Full Fact here https://fullfact.org/online/mandatory-vaccine-plans/. And though there was some stuff about Ticketmaster checking vaccine status, Full Fact has another entry here https://fullfact.org/health/ticketmaste ... s-vaccine/. Obviously papers reporting that the government haven't ruled it out https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk- ... ccination/, but doesn't suggest the permanent isolation feared by Ian Brown.

Paragraph 3:
Flu vaccine doesn't work because flu is still here - Full Fact once again, have that covered https://fullfact.org/online/coronavirus ... u-vaccine/
According to this, people did wear masks, socially distance and lockdown during the 1918 flu outbreak - but there were issues with mask wearing, including people removing them when indoors and not cleaning them https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.137 ... 9108/full/. This interesting article was linked within the previous one, and looks at "nonpharmaceutical interventions" during the 1918 flu, which included at times closing schools, stopping public gatherings, and quarantines of infected individuals https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... cle/208354.

Are Covid cases flu? Of f.cking course not, says Full Fact (well, not in so many words but you get the gist) https://fullfact.org/health/colds-flu-second-wave/

Where has the debate been, says Ian. Everywhere? I mean, I don't think there's been a single decision that hasn't been discussed, debated or protested against. Why are things pulled from social media? Some things have been pulled, but let's face it, there's so much, it's hardly made a dent. The ethics of whether Big Tech should decide are interesting, and certainly we've discussed it here, for eg, in this thread started by me. It's not exactly a new topic, but probably beyond the scope of this post.

No mention from the government about the importance of health. Loathe as I am to defend them, on anything, I do recall the chatter about obesity, which includes references to nutrition and diet etc. And in fact, here is the Government's obesity strategy https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ct-the-nhs, and here is an article about how they're banning junk food ads online https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/ ... le-obesity, criticised by the Telegraph as being too draconian https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ ... wed-fight/.

They've also requested information on vitamin D, as reported here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... amin-d-use, and are potentially giving it to elderly and vulnerable people https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... p-protect/. The Guardian piece also mentions research being undertaken on high dose vitamin C (this looks to be one trial https://www.remapcap.org/coronavirus).

Paragraph 4:
Vested interests of government and science advisors.
Evening Standard report on the Patrick Vallance holding shares in GSK thing here https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/patr ... 55141.html
Kate Bingham, the chair of the vaccine taskforce, has had some recent questions about her investments, but not sure if that's anything to do with vaccines really https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... investment
Dunno if there are any other vested interests, but obviously not going to defend this government and it's cronyism.

Covid has yet to be isolated. I see there is a chap asking a similar question under an FOI https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _and_ident, and also this extremely interesting site https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-c ... -act-2020/. Full Fact address this and the Koch's Postulate stuff here https://fullfact.org/health/Covid-isolated-virus/
Piers Corbyn did indeed get a fine under the coronavirus laws https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... down-rally
Oxford vaccine - bit of info about ChAdOx1 here https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2 ... 19-vaccine
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Stephanie
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Stephanie » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:24 pm

Final bl..dy page

Paragraph 1:
Full Fact on Event 201 https://fullfact.org/health/event-201-c ... -pandemic/

Paragraph 2:
Lockstep Project - covered by Snopes https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rocke ... -lockstep/

Tested positive vs died from - I mean, I can't see how that has anything to do the the Behavioural Insights Team - I figured it was just how the media report stuff anyway? I realise there's some debate about "of" and "with" covid, and the true death toll, covered by Full Fact here https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/.

Full Fact have really covered a lot of the crap, so congrats to them on that. Sadly don't think Ian will change his mind though.
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Grumble
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Grumble » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Thanks Stephanie, I feel like I’ll be coming back to this series of posts over the next few months.
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:22 pm

Wow, top posts Stephanie

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Stephanie
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Stephanie » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:30 pm

Thanks guys. I don't really know the science, but if Ian's idea of research is googling sh.t online, well, then we're evenly matched :)
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Grumble
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Grumble » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:39 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:30 pm
Thanks guys. I don't really know the science, but if Ian's idea of research is googling sh.t online, well, then we're evenly matched :)
The effort of trawling through a gish gallop is more than I’ve ever been prepared to do though.
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Gfamily » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:00 pm

As has been said...
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My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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jimbob
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by jimbob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:48 pm

Not Ian Brown's... *yet* but I suspect they might be soon.


Daily mail article:

Code: Select all

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8971669/What-DONT-tell-Covid-facts-twisted-strike-fear-hearts.html
With a very dodgy graph that a Twitter friend has posted about
Image

https://twitter.com/gordonrlove1/status ... 51072?s=20
Gordon:Covid grapher, data hunter-gatherer
@gordonrlove1
My first-ever complaint to the Independent Press Standards Organisation

About the Daily Mail's publication of the out-of-date & fake data about this year's all-causes deaths in England & Wales

To make your own complaint, please contact via
https://ipso.co.uk/complain/
10:40 AM · Nov 22, 2020·Twitter for Android
Complaining about accuracy. And pointing out the very dubious corrections used by the self-proclaimed "Statistics Guy"
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by JQH » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:21 pm

I had a double take at how crap that is. Pick a week where deaths are almost the same, shout about that and ignore the f.cking big peak earlier in the year.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Gordon L » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:27 pm

The back-story to this:

The Daily Mail used a graph by a "Twitterer" called "The Statistics Guy" @Jon_statistics

On one of his conspiratorial threads, 2 weeks ago, I posted this:
https://twitter.com/gordonrlove1/status ... 22657?s=19

"[Excess deaths in England &Wales are] over 10% up on the standard seasonal thing" (I was quoting the ONS figures for week 43)

He told me that my figures were a rookie mistake, as I had not
accounted for population-growth

He then "corrected" me, using figures adjusted in a way that, to this day, I cannot work out.

I then published a population-normalised version, & pointed out how it looked as you'd expect such a thing to look

I waited a day, pointed out more explicitly how his looked quite different, and asked him to explain his version.... and he blocked me

Then the other day, someone pointed out that his week 44 version of the same graph was being used to discredit the lockdown

Over the past 5 years, the population has grown, up to 2.7%
He has upped the historic data by 6.98%

Coincidentally, that makes the current year and his version of the historic data look the same

He then manages to graph it so the current actual very slightly larger number, looks very slightly smaller than his bizarrely wrong adjusted historic figure looks
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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by jimbob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:37 pm

JQH wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:21 pm
I had a double take at how crap that is. Pick a week where deaths are almost the same, shout about that and ignore the f.cking big peak earlier in the year.
It's actually even worse.

He's handily quoted what his "corrected" week 44 5-year max is, which is 10861. So As, I have the ONS data for 2015-2020 (and indeed for wk31, 1999 to 2020) I was able to look at the max and min and then see what I'd need to inflate them by to get to his week 44 data: Which is 6.535%.

Image

You might notice that then the minimum fails to work. Unless, and this would be *really* silly, you only inflate the maximum and not the minimum.

Also if you are correcting for population growth - you should only correct for the average growth over the period, which I *think* should be the geometric mean of the growth from the start of the period.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by Bagheera » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:02 pm

Thanks again Stephanie, you are my new hero. As someone else said, I'm sure I'll be returning to this page a lot. Good, good: double good.

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Re: Ian Brown's conspiracy theories

Post by OneOffDave » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:26 am

A lot of the "Covid-19 isn't real" types keep banging on about the Koch Postulates and how if a condition doesn't meet all of them then the disease doesn't exist. Of course this falls down as the first postulate
The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms
doesn't account for asymptomatic carriers.

Also the postulates were drawn up before the existence of viruses was known about so don't really work properly for virus caused ill-health

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