Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 am

The Republicans to pressure are the following, with state and year they're next up for election. Asterisks for those I think likely.

Usual suspects:

Romney (UT 2024)*
Murkowski (AK 2022)*
Collins (ME 2026)*
Sasse (NE 2026)*

Not running again:

Toomey (PA 2022)*
Burr (NC 2022)
Grassley (IA 2022, not said if he's running again but he'll be 89 at the 2022 election)

Other possibles:

Thune (SD 2022)
Sullivan (AK 2026)
Lee (UT 2022)
Ernst (IA 2026)

That only makes 11 possible, of which I think they'd get 5. I can't think of anyone else who'd make a stand.

Of course, if Moscow Mitch McConnell joined the rebellion against Trump then it would be transformed. He won't. But if he did. It would quicker to count Trump's safe votes (the 8 insurrectionists) plus likely votes (another 12). Conviction would be straightforward.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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atled
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by atled » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:01 pm

lpm - it looks like you might get your wish regarding Moscow Mitch, he is one cynically bastard, see links to Guardain and BBC.

Seems like you can add Liz Cheney and a few others as mention in the links

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55642101]

[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ment-looms]

Also mentioned somewhere is that Sidney Powell is being sued for defamation by Dominion, the amkers of voting machines: they only want $1.3 billion!.
Other lawyers who push Trumps claims are in trouble with legal agencies and Bar associations.

This show is not done yet, my congratulations to the script writers.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Pence is reportedly privately supportive of impeachment, probably as he doesn't have to do anything public to support that, so he can keep the Trumpist evangelical base.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:50 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 am
Of course, if Moscow Mitch McConnell joined the rebellion against Trump then it would be transformed. He won't. But if he did. It would quicker to count Trump's safe votes (the 8 insurrectionists) plus likely votes (another 12). Conviction would be straightforward.
Mitch is letting it be known that he's onboard if the case is made well.

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:54 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm
Pence is reportedly privately supportive of impeachment, probably as he doesn't have to do anything public to support that, so he can keep the Trumpist evangelical base.
If they could get rid of Trump without public exposure I’m pretty most Republicans would do so (for a variety of reasons). That’s why their yes and no votes need to be recorded
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:12 pm

atled wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:01 pm
Seems like you can add Liz Cheney and a few others as mention in the links
Sorry I should have been clearer - Cheney & Co are House, I assumed the House is won and rushed on to thinking about the Senate.

But the more Republican House reps vote for it, the more backbone will be given to Republican Senators. Their backbones are usually measured in nanobackbones however.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by bjn » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:54 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm
Pence is reportedly privately supportive of impeachment, probably as he doesn't have to do anything public to support that, so he can keep the Trumpist evangelical base.
If they could get rid of Trump without public exposure I’m pretty most Republicans would do so (for a variety of reasons). That’s why their yes and no votes need to be recorded
It should split the utter crazies from the repubs and the nutters will cry 'traitor' at McConnell. The true believers seem to be at least 30% of their members and won't forgive. So they'll either try to primary anyone who didn't support Trump, or refuse to vote Republican. The Repubs have 2 years to repair this, with any luck they'll devolve into serious bickering and have a chunk of the crazies sit on their hands in 2022 rather than vote. The worst outcome would be the Republicans falling even further down the rabbit hole of fascism than they have so far.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:25 pm

McConnell now wants rid of Trump as he poses a threat to McConnell's running of the GOP. Trump's shown he's not going to go quietly and now considers the GOP to be his party. Impeachment will at least put Trump outside the GOP tent albeit pissing in, but that's better than being inside and just pissing all over everyone.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Vertigowooyay » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:32 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:25 pm
McConnell now wants rid of Trump as he poses a threat to McConnell's running of the GOP. Trump's shown he's not going to go quietly and now considers the GOP to be his party. Impeachment will at least put Trump outside the GOP tent albeit pissing in, but that's better than being inside and just pissing all over everyone.
What they think in private is a bit irrelevant - no top Republican like McConnell is going to want their fingerprints on a move that impeaches, convicts or even censures Trump. They're more scared of the mob they created than anything else.
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:48 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:25 pm
McConnell now wants rid of Trump as he poses a threat to McConnell's running of the GOP. Trump's shown he's not going to go quietly and now considers the GOP to be his party. Impeachment will at least put Trump outside the GOP tent albeit pissing in, but that's better than being inside and just pissing all over everyone.
Yes! This is exactly why McConnell should do it.
Vertigowooyay wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:32 pm
What they think in private is a bit irrelevant - no top Republican like McConnell is going to want their fingerprints on a move that impeaches, convicts or even censures Trump. They're more scared of the mob they created than anything else.
But! This is exactly why McConnell won't do it.

Plus the whole Moscow bit of Moscow Mitch. That kompromat file ain't just going away by itself. He's a terrible terrible person who covered up Putin's puppetry.

On the other hand, he's not well. He's 78 and won't be selecting any more judges for a while. He might want to put a veneer on his reputation for the history books.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:08 pm

Precedent for impeaching after the criminal has left office:

1876
Secretary of War William Belknap

Belknap was raking in money from exploiting soldiers at frontier forts via selling monopolies to traders. Congress prepared to impeach. He resigned in the morning but the House went ahead and impeached that afternoon. The Speaker stated the resignation was "with intent to evade the proceedings of impeachment against him".

The Senate debated if they could now try Belknap, given he was now out of office. They concluded that they could. They voted to convict by 35-25 but failed to get the 67% mark, so he was acquitted. However by continuing the trial they set a precedent for future cases were officials resigned before impeachment or trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_post_scandal
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:26 pm

I listened to this last year. I’ll have to re-read the pdf (if anyone wants it please dm)

It does talk a lot about impeachment of other public officials apart from Presidents and I can see that in the road ahead

https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Investigat ... 1682769925
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:46 pm

It's amazing how Presidential power has evaporated. Normally outgoing Presidents retain a lot of power in the lame duck - politicians want ex Presidents to give future endorsements or speeches or to channel fundraising their way.

Trump's little excursion to a fence in Texas was ignored by the media - he could only be arsed to speak for 20 minutes. He hasn't got any other events in the diary. His idea of giving some bloke a Medal of Freedom failed when the recepient told him to f.ck off. He's unable to communicate directly. He's unable to communicate via the White House briefing room because he can't expose himself to questions.

In his last impeachment he had a team of lawyers and used the power of the Presidency to the full. Now he only has half his cabinet left and they are dodging his phone calls. His Vice President is against him. No governing is going on, except probably in the pardons office - where the lawyers will be extremely nervous they might be joining in an illegal conspiracy if they help.

He's presumably just sulking in his room, watching TV, and composing tweets he can never send. His only allies are Giuliani (mostly getting drunk) and Dershowitz (mostly getting massages).

And worst of all Ivanka is keeping her distance.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:57 pm

I know I shouldn’t be shocked but I am shocked with regard to the bad faith of the Republicans as I watch the impeachment. Sickening.
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:05 pm

140 of these House Republicans attempted to overthrow the election result. Bad faith is what they've been trained up in.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by nezumi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Just the senate now

Fingers crossed!
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:30 pm

nezumi wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:20 pm
Just the senate now

Fingers crossed!
Pence has rejected the 25th request and can’t be forced to do it. The vote in the House on impeachment hasn’t happened yet
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Stephanie » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:26 pm

"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:07 pm

HERE WE GO!!
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:22 pm

IMPEACHED!!
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:26 pm

10 Republicans.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by plodder » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:27 pm

Is that it then? He's been charged?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:27 pm
Is that it then? He's been charged?
Votes can still be changed, but yes.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:37 pm

232-197

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by cvb » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:42 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:37 pm
232-197
Does this mean it will actually stick at the next vote though?

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