US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Yes, but "planned" in the sense of that 4-step meme where step 3 is "????" and step 4 is "Profit".
I believe they thought if they could just force their way in, something would happen and "justice" and Trump would be restored. I also believe Trump thought that too; if he could just get his good people to throw over the tables then something something and his stolen victory would be returned to him. Everyone thought someone else had a plan for what to do once they got there. Many thought that it was jolly exciting to make blood-curdling death threats against the imagined traitors but somehow seem not to have imagined that in the cold light of day those are genuine, straightforward incitements to murder in circumstances where the mob would very likely have done it if they had the opportunity.
But this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
I believe they thought if they could just force their way in, something would happen and "justice" and Trump would be restored. I also believe Trump thought that too; if he could just get his good people to throw over the tables then something something and his stolen victory would be returned to him. Everyone thought someone else had a plan for what to do once they got there. Many thought that it was jolly exciting to make blood-curdling death threats against the imagined traitors but somehow seem not to have imagined that in the cold light of day those are genuine, straightforward incitements to murder in circumstances where the mob would very likely have done it if they had the opportunity.
But this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
True. I didn't say it was a good plan.
Given that the Oath Keepers are largely ex-military you'd think they would have known that taking military action without a clear objective and an exit strategy would be problematic.I believe they thought if they could just force their way in, something would happen and "justice" and Trump would be restored. I also believe Trump thought that too; if he could just get his good people to throw over the tables then something something and his stolen victory would be returned to him. Everyone thought someone else had a plan for what to do once they got there. Many thought that it was jolly exciting to make blood-curdling death threats against the imagined traitors but somehow seem not to have imagined that in the cold light of day those are genuine, straightforward incitements to murder in circumstances where the mob would very likely have done it if they had the opportunity.
But this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Yes - and look how many were military or retired military. Yes there were dangerous clowns (one of the ziptie guys wasn't as clever as he thought, for example) but there was a cadre who had thought it through.
Geffory Palmer's Character in Fairly Secret Army but for real
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Ex-military covers all ranks of course, from those who are used to deciding what objective needs to be achieved to those who must decide how to do that to those who decide nothing and just follow orders.
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Have you looked at the recent American military actions? Afghanistan & Iraq had very woolly objectives (beyond, you know, win!) and no clear exit strategies. It does make you wonder what they are teaching in their military academies.
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
"When the pin is pulled Mr Grenade is no longer our friend".
Allegedly.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Well, that might explain it; they expected to be welcomed as liberators.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
So it wasn't Trump's fault after all???Martin Y wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 amBut this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
That will probably be his impeachment trial defence.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:17 amSo it wasn't Trump's fault after all???Martin Y wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 amBut this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Their plan only worked to the extent it did because of the whipped up crowd. Also Trump was inciting the Oath Keepers for months and months.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:17 amSo it wasn't Trump's fault after all???Martin Y wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 amBut this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Trump's inflammatory lying body of work over several preceding months bears a great portion of the blame for their instigating the plot. His inflammatory lying speech on the day only flicked off the safety catch and pulled the trigger.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:17 amSo it wasn't Trump's fault after all???Martin Y wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 amBut this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
If anything, whipping up the crowd on the day just gave the Oath Keepers cover.Martin Y wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:33 amTrump's inflammatory lying body of work over several preceding months bears a great portion of the blame for their instigating the plot. His inflammatory lying speech on the day only flicked off the safety catch and pulled the trigger.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:17 amSo it wasn't Trump's fault after all???Martin Y wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 amBut this stuff from the Oath Keepers shows pretty clearly that they were not spontaneously whipped up into acting on the day. It wasn't the incitement of the crowd egging each other on for them. They planned their assault. It was a half-assed plan with no clear objective, but it was a plan.
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Smartmatic are suing Fox for $2.7 billion...
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
What are they likely to actually get if they succeed, and after lawyers are paid? A million?
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Dominion are also preparing to sue Fox, and many of the same individuals.
They've asked social media networks to preserve posts from the individuals concerned.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Federal prosecutors have now filed charges against 211 people accused of taking part in the assault on the U.S. Capitol last month
The Proud Boys are right up there in numbers.
The Proud Boys are right up there in numbers.
Here grows much rhubarb.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
So ... how many Antifa in the end?Chris Preston wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:16 amFederal prosecutors have now filed charges against 211 people accused of taking part in the assault on the U.S. Capitol last month
The Proud Boys are right up there in numbers.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
There was that "Activist John" guy who had been arrested at a BLM protest in Utah after a shooting there, but he had already been pegged by the local BLM peeps and other left wing types* as a wrongun.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:31 pmSo ... how many Antifa in the end?Chris Preston wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:16 amFederal prosecutors have now filed charges against 211 people accused of taking part in the assault on the U.S. Capitol last month
The Proud Boys are right up there in numbers.
clicky
*Think someone posted a twitter thread detailing that.
Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Capitol Police Union votes no confidence in Capitol Police leadership. Including 97% No Confidence in Capitol Police Captain Ben Smith.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
I never know what to think about US police unions. It's like a poo burrito.dyqik wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:11 pmCapitol Police Union votes no confidence in Capitol Police leadership. Including 97% No Confidence in Capitol Police Captain Ben Smith.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Disappointed black guy meme: Your friend joins a union. It's a police union.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:09 pmI never know what to think about US police unions. It's like a poo burrito.
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Police unions are one of the many reasons defunding the police will never happen.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:14 amDisappointed black guy meme: Your friend joins a union. It's a police union.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:09 pmI never know what to think about US police unions. It's like a poo burrito.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection
Lots of places have already defunded their police forces to invest in social care https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... partments/
But so far it's a grass-roots bottom-up effort (and I've not seen any analysis of the correlation with police union membership/strength). I don't see the current administration doing much to improve social care in communities, and so far all their police 'reform' proposals are just more of the same treading-lightly three-training-course-on-how-not-to-execute-black-people-but-no-consequences-if-you-do time-wasting that's been such a roaring success (for US racists). But that's because they're not interested in doing anything, not because they couldn't take on the unions if they needed to.
But so far it's a grass-roots bottom-up effort (and I've not seen any analysis of the correlation with police union membership/strength). I don't see the current administration doing much to improve social care in communities, and so far all their police 'reform' proposals are just more of the same treading-lightly three-training-course-on-how-not-to-execute-black-people-but-no-consequences-if-you-do time-wasting that's been such a roaring success (for US racists). But that's because they're not interested in doing anything, not because they couldn't take on the unions if they needed to.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.