Male violence and harassment of women

[Grumble]

Another woman assaulted by a police officer.

He's been sentenced to, er, three-tenths of one-half of f.ck all.

His lawyer argued he should not have to do community service because it would be “difficult” for him to work with criminals.

Instead the officer was sentenced to a 14-week curfew, banning him from leaving his house between 7pm and 7am.

Channel 4 news have move on this story. They discuss the slow response of the police - it took over 30 hours for the police to take a phone statement, over a week before she saw an officer face-to-face and over 8 weeks before they visited the scene, by which time a lot of CCTV footage had been deleted. It sounds like it was only by chance that a neighbour's CCTV was kept, watched and found to have recorded the assault and without that it's unlikely that they would have done anything - he would have got away with it were it not for that neighbour. I should be shocked but unfortunately I'm not, it's clearly par for the course for these sorts of cases.

Channel 4 found a College of Policing report that had statistics for barred officers in 2020.

Screenshot 2021-03-19 at 20.47.50.png

They note that there's no record of whether these officers were charged for these offences or just lost their jobs.

At least, and it’s not much, but at least when police officers are dismissed here I think they stay dismissed. In the US with its thousands of police forces and no national database all you have to do is hop to the next town and join the police there.

[snoozeofreason]

Media reports of court cases need to be treated with caution, because the impression that they create about the direction in which use of custody is moving is often diametrically opposite to reality.

High profile crimes are nearly always followed by tabloid demands for longer and harsher sentences. If the crime is sexual in nature, then the broadsheets and the progressive left often join the tabloids in these calls. The result is that the average length of custodial sentences - for both sexual and non-sexual offences - has been increasing for years, while the media creates the opposite impression through selective, and often misleading, reports of apparently light sentencing. The UK now has one of the highest incarceration rates in western Europe and - not coincidentally - it also has a much higher recidivism rate than countries such as Norway and Sweden that are more reluctant to lock up offenders. The problem with custodial sentences is that eventually prisoners get released, and there is no good evidence that being banged up in our increasingly overcrowded and under-resourced prisons reduces the risk that such people pose when they get out.

[Tessa K]

I've been getting more hassle from men since lockdown started because with the mask on they can't see how old I am which, in some cases, is around their mum's age.

The security guy in Sainsbury's today stood a couple of metres away and stared at me as I was queuing. I told him it was rude to stare and mentioned it to the cashier, who just shrugged. No point complaining as he'd just deny it. (No, not watching me as a potential shoplifter, I can tell the difference)

Lots of comments and staring in the street too.

[Cardinal Fang]

He he he

One of my flatmates is a nurse. She's fairly... top heavy, shall we say.

Yesterday a guy on the bus grabbed her breast on her way to work. She told him once not to do that. He did it again. She grabbed his fingers and bent them back. One broken, one dislocated*.

He tried to get the police to arrest her for assault. Police pointed out that if his hand hadn't been where it was, it wouldn't have happened. Whether they take any further steps against him will just have to wait and see (they're supposedly "reviewing CCTV") but frankly we're not holding out much hope, as charge rates, let alone conviction rates are really low.

CF

*Flatmate works in EAU which is next to A&E where they took aforementioned creeper. Colleague told flatmate of creeper's injuries - obviously in the course of patient care of course.

[purplehaze]

Good thread and many informative posts.

Lee Hurst, 57, being unfunny and harassing about a teenager. Thankfully loads of people calling him out on it.

https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/statu ... 9476113411

[Grumble]

He he he

One of my flatmates is a nurse. She's fairly... top heavy, shall we say.

Yesterday a guy on the bus grabbed her breast on her way to work. She told him once not to do that. He did it again. She grabbed his fingers and bent them back. One broken, one dislocated*.

He tried to get the police to arrest her for assault. Police pointed out that if his hand hadn't been where it was, it wouldn't have happened. Whether they take any further steps against him will just have to wait and see (they're supposedly "reviewing CCTV") but frankly we're not holding out much hope, as charge rates, let alone conviction rates are really low.

CF

*Flatmate works in EAU which is next to A&E where they took aforementioned creeper. Colleague told flatmate of creeper's injuries - obviously in the course of patient care of course.

Well done flatmate. Hope he’s learnt his lesson, I doubt he’ll stop being a creep but maybe he’ll stop being a molester.

[Gfamily]

Good thread and many informative posts.

Lee Hurst, 57, being unfunny and harassing about a teenager. Thankfully loads of people calling him out on it.

https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/statu ... 9476113411

Silenced, he's been silenced!
Or something.
(suspended anyway)

[Tessa K]

He he he

One of my flatmates is a nurse. She's fairly... top heavy, shall we say.

Yesterday a guy on the bus grabbed her breast on her way to work. She told him once not to do that. He did it again. She grabbed his fingers and bent them back. One broken, one dislocated*.

He tried to get the police to arrest her for assault. Police pointed out that if his hand hadn't been where it was, it wouldn't have happened. Whether they take any further steps against him will just have to wait and see (they're supposedly "reviewing CCTV") but frankly we're not holding out much hope, as charge rates, let alone conviction rates are really low.

CF

*Flatmate works in EAU which is next to A&E where they took aforementioned creeper. Colleague told flatmate of creeper's injuries - obviously in the course of patient care of course.

Well done flatmate. Hope he’s learnt his lesson, I doubt he’ll stop being a creep but maybe he’ll stop being a molester.

My first thought was 'well done' but my second thought was to wonder if I'd dare do that in case he punched me (with the other hand).

[purplehaze]

Good thread and many informative posts.

Lee Hurst, 57, being unfunny and harassing about a teenager. Thankfully loads of people calling him out on it.

https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/statu ... 9476113411

Silenced, he's been silenced!
Or something.
(suspended anyway)

Account suspended. I didn't take any screen shots of the offensive tweet but it was abusive and harassment.

[purplehaze]

Have a short but sharpened pencil on your key ring and stab them in the eye/facial area.

My mother told me that if anyone came up behind you and grabbed, to crack the finger back then kick them in the sensitive part. Her dad taught her that and he volunteered to serve in WW1 - spent most of it as a POW.

[Tessa K]

Have a short but sharpened pencil on your key ring and stab them in the eye/facial area.

My mother told me that if anyone came up behind you and grabbed, to crack the finger back then kick them in the sensitive part. Her dad taught her that and he volunteered to serve in WW1 - spent most of it as a POW.

Women have always had to think about self-defence, sadly. It must have been a nightmare during the blackout of WW2. We could learn from the suffragettes.

[jimbob]

He he he

One of my flatmates is a nurse. She's fairly... top heavy, shall we say.

Yesterday a guy on the bus grabbed her breast on her way to work. She told him once not to do that. He did it again. She grabbed his fingers and bent them back. One broken, one dislocated*.

He tried to get the police to arrest her for assault. Police pointed out that if his hand hadn't been where it was, it wouldn't have happened. Whether they take any further steps against him will just have to wait and see (they're supposedly "reviewing CCTV") but frankly we're not holding out much hope, as charge rates, let alone conviction rates are really low.

CF

*Flatmate works in EAU which is next to A&E where they took aforementioned creeper. Colleague told flatmate of creeper's injuries - obviously in the course of patient care of course.

Well done flatmate. Hope he’s learnt his lesson, I doubt he’ll stop being a creep but maybe he’ll stop being a molester.

My first thought was 'well done' but my second thought was to wonder if I'd dare do that in case he punched me (with the other hand).

I *suspect* he would be so surprised (and pained) that he wouldn't do it. I'm guessing he'd presumed he was immune, and the shock of physical response probably prevented him doing that. He would be hoping for something with no commotion.

[bjn]

My first thought was 'well done' but my second thought was to wonder if I'd dare do that in case he punched me (with the other hand).

I *suspect* he would be so surprised (and pained) that he wouldn't do it. I'm guessing he'd presumed he was immune, and the shock of physical response probably prevented him doing that. He would be hoping for something with no commotion.

It's also situational, one can respond differently on a bus with others around you as opposed to being in a proverbial dark alley on your own. In the first case you can call out the person assaulting you and then defend yourself with appropriate levels of violence, the presence of others will likely put them off and people can and do step in.

A core teaching of any self defence system worth its salt is be aware of your situation, don't put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation, be aware of your surroundings and take appropriate actions to dissuade any potential attacker. Resorting to violence is the literally the last thing you should do, but if you do resort to violence make sure it counts, as was done to Mr Broken Fingers above. The tragedy for women is that the number of dangerous situations is significantly greater than it is for men, and very different in kind as well.

[JQH]

Good thread and many informative posts.

Lee Hurst, 57, being unfunny and harassing about a teenager. Thankfully loads of people calling him out on it.

https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/statu ... 9476113411

This tweet is from a suspended account

[discovolante]

Good, it was a horrible tweet.

[jimbob]

Good, it was a horrible tweet.

It was.

It's amazing how those who love calling people snowflakes for wanting basic decency for themselves and others are so triggered by the existence of a young adult woman like Greta Thunberg

[Fishnut]

More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.

There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld. Among those was a Met officer who was dismissed after allegedly pretending to be a woman online “to advance his sexual proclivities and also film a woman apparently having non-consensual sex with a male in a public park”.

Another officer was forced to leave the Met over allegations that he was having a “sexual relationship with a resident in a women’s refuge”, a safe house where victims of domestic violence seek sanctuary.

Other serious cases include an officer who met a woman while on duty and later visited her home where sexual intercourse led to an allegation of rape. He received a verbal warning and management advice, the least severe censure an officer can receive following a misconduct hearing...

A number of the cases document instances of domestic abuse, with one officer dismissed after being arrested “on suspicion of rape, threats to kill and common assault” against his partner. Another, a special constable, “raped his wife numerous times over eight years of marriage” and was also dismissed.

Remind me again how putting police in bars will make women safer.

[monkey]

More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.

There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld. Among those was a Met officer who was dismissed after allegedly pretending to be a woman online “to advance his sexual proclivities and also film a woman apparently having non-consensual sex with a male in a public park”.

Another officer was forced to leave the Met over allegations that he was having a “sexual relationship with a resident in a women’s refuge”, a safe house where victims of domestic violence seek sanctuary.

Other serious cases include an officer who met a woman while on duty and later visited her home where sexual intercourse led to an allegation of rape. He received a verbal warning and management advice, the least severe censure an officer can receive following a misconduct hearing...

A number of the cases document instances of domestic abuse, with one officer dismissed after being arrested “on suspicion of rape, threats to kill and common assault” against his partner. Another, a special constable, “raped his wife numerous times over eight years of marriage” and was also dismissed.

Remind me again how putting police in bars will make women safer.

Maybe putting a few behind bars would help?

[jimbob]

More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.

There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld. Among those was a Met officer who was dismissed after allegedly pretending to be a woman online “to advance his sexual proclivities and also film a woman apparently having non-consensual sex with a male in a public park”.

Another officer was forced to leave the Met over allegations that he was having a “sexual relationship with a resident in a women’s refuge”, a safe house where victims of domestic violence seek sanctuary.

Other serious cases include an officer who met a woman while on duty and later visited her home where sexual intercourse led to an allegation of rape. He received a verbal warning and management advice, the least severe censure an officer can receive following a misconduct hearing...

A number of the cases document instances of domestic abuse, with one officer dismissed after being arrested “on suspicion of rape, threats to kill and common assault” against his partner. Another, a special constable, “raped his wife numerous times over eight years of marriage” and was also dismissed.

Remind me again how putting police in bars will make women safer.

It will make the streets slightly safer?

[Gfamily]

More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.

There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld. Among those was a Met officer who was dismissed after allegedly pretending to be a woman online “to advance his sexual proclivities and also film a woman apparently having non-consensual sex with a male in a public park”.

Another officer was forced to leave the Met over allegations that he was having a “sexual relationship with a resident in a women’s refuge”, a safe house where victims of domestic violence seek sanctuary.

Other serious cases include an officer who met a woman while on duty and later visited her home where sexual intercourse led to an allegation of rape. He received a verbal warning and management advice, the least severe censure an officer can receive following a misconduct hearing...

A number of the cases document instances of domestic abuse, with one officer dismissed after being arrested “on suspicion of rape, threats to kill and common assault” against his partner. Another, a special constable, “raped his wife numerous times over eight years of marriage” and was also dismissed.

Remind me again how putting police in bars will make women safer.

Maybe police officers attracting the 'she' pronoun would be better placed for the role.

[Bird on a Fire]

Police protect property not people. They're the wrong tool for the job. I'm not sure there's an alternative to a society that encourages equity and respect for all while punishing transgressions in a way and to an extent that makes a difference.

[bmforre]

Jailed for harassment

A man who repeatedly harassed a woman in the street and threatened to rape her has been jailed for six weeks.
Max Ronaldson, 25, first leered at the woman as she walked home along Balham Hill, in southwest London on 25 January.
The victim challenged Ronaldson, but he responded by following her, shouting abuse and threatening to break into her house and rape her.
A similar incident occurred on 12 February when Ronaldson approached the woman again but was seen off by two members of the public.
On 21 February, Ronaldson approached the woman a third time, but she was able to film the incident on her phone and take pictures, which she passed to police.

He was arrested and charged with two offences, threatening behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress and causing harassment without violence.

[Woodchopper]

Police protect property not people. They're the wrong tool for the job. I'm not sure there's an alternative to a society that encourages equity and respect for all while punishing transgressions in a way and to an extent that makes a difference.

If not the police, who should identify and apprehended transgressors? If it’s not to be ad hoc gangs of vigilantes you’ll need a designated group of people. They will need to be democratically accountable, follow rules set by a democratic process and be identifiable by the rest of society. Pretty much like the police.

[Bird on a Fire]

Police protect property not people. They're the wrong tool for the job. I'm not sure there's an alternative to a society that encourages equity and respect for all while punishing transgressions in a way and to an extent that makes a difference.

If not the police, who should identify and apprehended transgressors? If it’s not to be ad hoc gangs of vigilantes you’ll need a designated group of people. They will need to be democratically accountable, follow rules set by a democratic process and be identifiable by the rest of society. Pretty much like the police.

Ah, I did mean specifically in bars/nightclubs/etc., which probably wasn't clear. I agree that there's definitely a role for a formal security force for the reasons you state. I just don't think they should be hanging around in plain clothes in watering holes trying to catch creeps and gropers. At least some parts of the hospitality industry have been quite proactive at trying to develop protocols to support women, like the Ask for Angela scheme that has already been mentioned.

The whole "cops in bars" thing does kind of smell like a dead cat, though. After all, Sarah Everard was walking home, not clubbing.

As far as I can see the role of police in these kinds of cases can only really be reactive. Cops in bars aside, are there any sensible suggestions for proactive community-policing-style interventions?

[Woodchopper]

Police protect property not people. They're the wrong tool for the job. I'm not sure there's an alternative to a society that encourages equity and respect for all while punishing transgressions in a way and to an extent that makes a difference.

If not the police, who should identify and apprehended transgressors? If it’s not to be ad hoc gangs of vigilantes you’ll need a designated group of people. They will need to be democratically accountable, follow rules set by a democratic process and be identifiable by the rest of society. Pretty much like the police.

Ah, I did mean specifically in bars/nightclubs/etc., which probably wasn't clear. I agree that there's definitely a role for a formal security force for the reasons you state. I just don't think they should be hanging around in plain clothes in watering holes trying to catch creeps and gropers. At least some parts of the hospitality industry have been quite proactive at trying to develop protocols to support women, like the Ask for Angela scheme that has already been mentioned.

The whole "cops in bars" thing does kind of smell like a dead cat, though. After all, Sarah Everard was walking home, not clubbing.

As far as I can see the role of police in these kinds of cases can only really be reactive. Cops in bars aside, are there any sensible suggestions for proactive community-policing-style interventions?

Fair enough, I thought you were making a much wider point. There has been lots of work done on how to reduce violent crime. I can post some links (but later, bit busy now).