Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Hi all,
Merry Sunday!
Would someone - anyone - be so kind as to debunk this for me?:
https://www.redpostequestrian.co.uk/hor ... K3EALw_wcB
"Using Tourmaline infused fabrics to release negative ions, causing a change in the water in your horse’s body. This allows increased blood flow and circulation in key areas and brings increased levels of oxygen to muscles to help ensure toxins are cleared from your horse’s body."
My girlfriend's about to buy one of these for her horse - I've argued against it, but...apparently horses operate under different biological-physical laws, than humans do...and I guess it wouldn't do any harm...
Merry Sunday!
Would someone - anyone - be so kind as to debunk this for me?:
https://www.redpostequestrian.co.uk/hor ... K3EALw_wcB
"Using Tourmaline infused fabrics to release negative ions, causing a change in the water in your horse’s body. This allows increased blood flow and circulation in key areas and brings increased levels of oxygen to muscles to help ensure toxins are cleared from your horse’s body."
My girlfriend's about to buy one of these for her horse - I've argued against it, but...apparently horses operate under different biological-physical laws, than humans do...and I guess it wouldn't do any harm...
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Fortunately, they're happy to answer questions about the product, so I've asked for their evidence for the claims.Bagheera wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:43 pmHi all,
Merry Sunday!
Would someone - anyone - be so kind as to debunk this for me?:
https://www.redpostequestrian.co.uk/hor ... K3EALw_wcB
"Using Tourmaline infused fabrics to release negative ions, causing a change in the water in your horse’s body. This allows increased blood flow and circulation in key areas and brings increased levels of oxygen to muscles to help ensure toxins are cleared from your horse’s body."
My girlfriend's about to buy one of these for her horse - I've argued against it, but...apparently horses operate under different biological-physical laws, than humans do...and I guess it wouldn't do any harm...
I'm sure they'll get back to me tomorrow.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
- basementer
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Heh. This is why homoeopathic remedies are effective on pets: the animal is completely unaffected, but the owner swallows the placebo.
Money is just a substitute for luck anyway. - Tom Siddell
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
GFamily I wouldn't be surprised if they got back to you this very afternoon - with peer-reviewed studies published in high-impact horse journals
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Do crystals release a negative charge?There are a number of great features that this rug offers:
Increases circulation
Stimulates metabolism
Increases oxygen delivery to cells and tissue
Strengthen immune system
Restores pH balance
Reduces blood pressure
Remove toxins from the body
The inner lining is coated with Tourmaline which is a naturally occurring crystal that releases an electric charge which converts the surrounding air molecules to negative ions, which are essential for your horse’s body to balance the positive ions to absorb every day chemicals.
Does this charge convert the surrounding air molecules to negative ions?
How do these ions get into the horse's body?
Do they change the water in the horse's body and in what way?
What is the mechanism by which they increase blood flow and circulation in key areas and bring increased levels of oxygen to muscles?
What toxins do they clear from the body?
How do they stimulate the metabolism?
How do they strengthen the immune system?
How do they reduce the pH balance and why does this need reducing?
How do they reduce blood pressure?
And other questions. The first two could be answered by an Actual Scientist, which I am not. I've emailed them to ask the other questions but don't hold out great hope for a reply.
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
I dare say even an Actual Scientist would struggle to de-tangle this utter bird's nest of compounded woo without resorting to a frustrated shrug and simply saying, "Because science."
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
It was more about how crystals work that I was looking for answers, whether they do give off electrical charges, for example. Not whether they cleanse your chakra.
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Nothing can continuously "give off" electrical charges - at some point it's going to run out of them.
Hot metals* do indeed give off electrical charge by a process called "thermionic emission", which means "giving off electrical charge because of heat". But basically the heat allows electrons to "boil" out of the metal. What happens then, though, it that the metal is missing some of its electrons so is net positively charged, so the cloud of electrons floating near the metal ("space charge") is attracted to that and doesn't want to wander off. In order to do anything with this you usually apply a positive potential to some other electrode ("anode") while supplying more electrons to the hot electrode ("cathode") oh and the whole thing needs to be in vacuum. This is how valves ("vacuum tubes") work.
(Some crystals, with their surfaces prepared in the right way, may indeed have a negative electron affinity which isn't the same as a negative work function [the work function is how much energy is needed to get an electron out] but still means it's easier to get electrons out.)
On the other hand, rub a glass or amber rod with a cloth made of synthetic material.
(* - usually, in applications like old TV screens or whatever in which this process would be exploited to give the beam of electrons which would then hit the phosphors on the inside of the glass tube, the metal would be coated with a substance which doesn't hang on to its electrons so tightly.)
Last edited by shpalman on Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Piezo electric crystals can give off a charge when physically stressed - and Tourmaline (which demonstrates this effect) is mentioned as being included in the structure of the blankets.
BUT - whether a blanket draped over the back of a horse would stress the crystals enough to have an effect is another matter.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
They don't "give off charge" they create an electric field.Gfamily wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:35 amPiezo electric crystals can give off a charge when physically stressed - and Tourmaline (which demonstrates this effect) is mentioned as being included in the structure of the blankets.
BUT - whether a blanket draped over the back of a horse would stress the crystals enough to have an effect is another matter.
An "electret" is a material with a permament electric (dipole) field, the electrical equivalent of a magnet.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Gfamily wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:35 amPiezo electric crystals can give off a charge when physically stressed - and Tourmaline (which demonstrates this effect) is mentioned as being included in the structure of the blankets.
BUT - whether a blanket draped over the back of a horse would stress the crystals enough to have an effect is another matter.
Tourmaline is pyroelectric, so the blanket will presumably give gentle zaps to hot horses.
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
This is the reply I got from the horse blanket company. Which tells me precisely nothing.
How do air molecules or ions get into the blood stream?Thank you for contacting us. The inner fabric is infused with tourmaline powder which releases an electric charge, this electric charge converts air molecules to negative ions. These negative ions are absorbed into your horse’s bloodstream supporting circulation and blood flow to muscles. We have also forwarded your email to the manufacturer to see if they can answer your questions in more detail - as soon as we have a response, we will be in contact.
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Tessa, I am genuinely surprised that they even replied - it's clear that they don't shy away from a scientific debate! But we needn't wait for the manufacturer's more detailed answer, because I have found it here:
https://www.iplikator.eu/en/iplicator-tourmaline
It turns out, infrared energy is how blood flow is increased:
----- ----- -----
Infrared eradiation
The tourmaline iplicator, which based on tourmaline material, is an acupressure instrument that is characterized by such exceptional features as 90.4% long-wavelength infrared radiation and negatively charged ions of 682 ions/cc, antibacterial and deodorant effects: 98% and 87% respectively, etc. At the contact with the human body due to the human heat and liquids, it occurs a process of separation of infrared rays and negative ions. There is an effect on blood, vessels, muscle tissue and nerve endings. Infrared rays penetrate the human’s body to 40 –50 mm and create a resonance effect in the molecules of tissues and body fluids, in the process of which capillary vessels expand and the blood flow rate increases, so the body oxygen content and the activated protein increase.
----- ----- -----
I know it's not yet April Fools, but...it feels like April Fools...ha
https://www.iplikator.eu/en/iplicator-tourmaline
It turns out, infrared energy is how blood flow is increased:
----- ----- -----
Infrared eradiation
The tourmaline iplicator, which based on tourmaline material, is an acupressure instrument that is characterized by such exceptional features as 90.4% long-wavelength infrared radiation and negatively charged ions of 682 ions/cc, antibacterial and deodorant effects: 98% and 87% respectively, etc. At the contact with the human body due to the human heat and liquids, it occurs a process of separation of infrared rays and negative ions. There is an effect on blood, vessels, muscle tissue and nerve endings. Infrared rays penetrate the human’s body to 40 –50 mm and create a resonance effect in the molecules of tissues and body fluids, in the process of which capillary vessels expand and the blood flow rate increases, so the body oxygen content and the activated protein increase.
----- ----- -----
I know it's not yet April Fools, but...it feels like April Fools...ha
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
So basically they’re claiming that if you put this blanket on your horse the horse will get warmer.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Hard to tell - they only mention humans in the 'ahem' - evidence.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Tell her that Tourmaline contains a lot of Boron, which is toxic to horses. Tell her to report the company to the RSPCA.
That should get everyone nicely tangled up
That should get everyone nicely tangled up
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
I'd recommend she gets an iconic horse blanket instead...
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Through breathing:
Air drawn into lungs where blood interacts with air.
See f.ex: How do lungs work?
Did you never learn about this in school? Not blaming you but certainly blaming schools keeping mum about such important basics.
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
I meant from the blanket. Does the horse have to put the blanket over its head or can horses breath through their skin?bmforre wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:32 amThrough breathing:
Air drawn into lungs where blood interacts with air.
See f.ex: How do lungs work?
Did you never learn about this in school? Not blaming you but certainly blaming schools keeping mum about such important basics.
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
Horses cannot breathe significantly through their skin, no more than we humans can.
Skin is thick and protective. Alveoli are " small air-containing compartments of the lungs in which the bronchioles terminate and from which respiratory gases are exchanged with the pulmonary capillaries." With thin permeable walls.
Thin permeable vs. thick protective. Opposite propertis for opposite purposes.
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
I can't tell if you're being serious. I do know all this.bmforre wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:53 amHorses cannot breathe significantly through their skin, no more than we humans can.
Skin is thick and protective. Alveoli are " small air-containing compartments of the lungs in which the bronchioles terminate and from which respiratory gases are exchanged with the pulmonary capillaries." With thin permeable walls.
Thin permeable vs. thick protective. Opposite propertis for opposite purposes.
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
I believe that "humans" was a typo here - it's clear they had intended to write "Houyhnhnms" - the race of intelligent horses documented so well in Gulliver's Travels.
Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
That is a problem with debunking bad salesstuff like 'ionic horse blankets': Comparing such propositions to facts make them obviously conflict with what sensible people know.
The starting idea that tourmaline or some other substance could emit significant electric charge and continue doing so is basically wrong because the altered charge distribution would cause voltage differences that stop and reverse the emission. On large scales lightning strikes re-establish equilibrium.
I warmly support the geochemical argument from Rockdoctor: Tourmaline contains far too much boron to be safe for horses. Get Animal Health and Safety on the case.
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Re: Ionic horse blankets - kindly debunk?
It can via the triboelectric effect. The blanket rubbing against the horse's hair can generate a charge, which may then result in a tiny spark - as you may have experienced yourself many times. Shocking, isn't it?