Untaught History
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- Catbabel
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Re: Untaught History
BYW, I know You’re Dead To Me has already been mentioned, I’d also recommend Natalie Haynes Stands Up For The Classics as another radio show well worth a listen (I might have skimmed past it).
- Tessa K
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Re: Untaught History
There's a big hoohaa going on at the moment about the use of 'Anglo-Saxon', a term that has been appropriated by white racists. Pretty much none of them know anything about who they were, what their society was like, where they came from etc. Either they never bothered to learn about them or they forgot everything they learnt at school. The preferred term is now either Early English or Old English people. It's more than the occasional politicans citing some historical figure or event without checking the facts to back up their position, it's becoming a real battleground.
And they forget about the poor old Jutes.
Eg this https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/ ... 5930155008
And they forget about the poor old Jutes.
Eg this https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/ ... 5930155008
And it's not just in the US, it's here too.An America First Caucus is recruiting lawmakers calling for "common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions” and a return to architectural style that “befits the progeny of European architecture.”
- Little waster
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Re: Untaught History
Trial by combat
Removing the hand of robbers
The calling of the fyrds.
Reinstatement of the Witan etc.*
*probably had multiple QI klaxons by now for things which a) aren’t uniquely Anglo Saxon, b) aren’t political or c) never happened.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- Tessa K
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Re: Untaught History
Politics as we know it now didn't exist in the early Mediaeval period of course. There was the monarch and the nobles, then everyone else who had little or no say at all in governance (governments didn't exist) and most of who were serfs and bondsmen/women who effectively belonged to their lords.Little waster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:16 amTrial by combat
Removing the hand of robbers
The calling of the fyrds.
Reinstatement of the Witan etc.*
*probably had multiple QI klaxons by now for things which a) aren’t uniquely Anglo Saxon, b) aren’t political or c) never happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WitenagemotWitan (more properly the title of its members), was a political institution in Anglo-Saxon England which operated from before the 7th century until the 11th century. The Witenagemot was an assembly of the ruling class whose primary function was to advise the king and whose membership was composed of the most important noblemen in England, both ecclesiastic and secular. The institution is thought to represent an aristocratic development of the ancient Germanic general assemblies, or folkmoots. In England, by the 7th century, these ancient folkmoots had developed into convocations of the land's most powerful and important people, including ealdormen, thegns, and senior clergy, to discuss matters of both national and local significance.
At a local level there was a kind of legal system to collect taxes and enforce law and order (yes, trial by ordeal included)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z ... revision/1
I'm in no hurry to go back to Anglo-Saxon social values where women had no say in anything except for a wealthy few who ran convents etc
- Bird on a Fire
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Re: Untaught History
US Conservatives are well known for their love of monarchy and taxes, so you can see why Anglo-Saxon history appeals to them.
They're definitely definitely not just using it as a dogwhistle for "white".
They're definitely definitely not just using it as a dogwhistle for "white".
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
Re: Untaught History
And for the right sort of white, excluding hispanics, Armenians, Greeks, central Europeans, Italians, Irish, etc. as time goes on.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:03 pmUS Conservatives are well known for their love of monarchy and taxes, so you can see why Anglo-Saxon history appeals to them.
They're definitely definitely not just using it as a dogwhistle for "white".
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Re: Untaught History
Some of the far right racists in the US use Celtic tattoos and symbolism, probably because there are so many people of Irish descent there and they don't want to feel left out. (Some irony here as the KKK in its early days was very anti-Catholic and Irish migrants had a tough time in the US)dyqik wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:24 pmAnd for the right sort of white, excluding hispanics, Armenians, Greeks, central Europeans, Italians, Irish, etc. as time goes on.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:03 pmUS Conservatives are well known for their love of monarchy and taxes, so you can see why Anglo-Saxon history appeals to them.
They're definitely definitely not just using it as a dogwhistle for "white".
There's a far-right racist movement in Scandi countries too and they're not Anglo-Saxon although they are of the Germanic ethnolinguistic group. Some of the US white supremacists have 'Viking' tattoos and iconography.
I used to wonder at school why so much history teaching focussed on the Greeks and Romans, pretty much none on the Scandinavians other than Viking invasions and even then very little about their culture or impact on ours.
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Re: Untaught History
Golden Age of Western - and therefore human - Civilisation, innit. I don't recall the Jutes inventing democracy, philosophy and mathematics.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
Re: Untaught History
Maybe that's because they didn't teach you it in school.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:26 pmGolden Age of Western - and therefore human - Civilisation, innit. I don't recall the Jutes inventing democracy, philosophy and mathematics.
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- Catbabel
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Re: Untaught History
Yeah, but they did invent sacks.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:26 pmGolden Age of Western - and therefore human - Civilisation, innit. I don't recall the Jutes inventing democracy, philosophy and mathematics.
- Little waster
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Re: Untaught History
I remember a couple of lessons on the arrival of the Ancient Ikeans and how they introduced the Romano-Britons to modular furniture and meatballs.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: Untaught History
I spent a year aged 11ish being taught the history of Texas. I bet the rest of you didn't get much of that. Otoh, I don't remember being taught anything about any English kings except George III.
Re: Untaught History
I spent Year 9 being taught the history of settlement of the American West and the migration of the Mormons.
Nothing on UK history after junior school and a trip to York to the Jorvik Viking Center. This is despite living 4 miles from the 1066 invasion site.
Nothing on UK history after junior school and a trip to York to the Jorvik Viking Center. This is despite living 4 miles from the 1066 invasion site.
Re: Untaught History
I had the The Usborne Book of World History as a child. I still think it's a great book for kids, even if it might not stack entirely well with current knowledge. It includes the Gilgamesh story which - for me at least - completely demolished the whole "Jesus" thing my school pushed, as well as some indication of how ordinary people lived and shows some of the grottier sides - like burying a wife alive when her husband died. Great book ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
In primary we did the historical periods that can be described as "The..." The Romans, The Tudors, The Victorians, etc. In my first year of secondary we actually did do a "broad brush" year. We covered the bare basics of the the last 2000 years in Britain which has definitely served me well, when I moved to a different school in yr8, we just did bits of history in isolation which is worse than useless imo. What's the point of learning about the Tudors and Stewarts, say, without touching on the Plantagenets or the kings and queens of Scotland or France? Without the context, there's no point in knowing the specifics. It's like teaching cookery without kitchen hygiene or safety, yeah you might make some lovely cupcakes but you didn't clean the tray so now everybody's dead.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
In primary we did the historical periods that can be described as "The..." The Romans, The Tudors, The Victorians, etc. In my first year of secondary we actually did do a "broad brush" year. We covered the bare basics of the the last 2000 years in Britain which has definitely served me well, when I moved to a different school in yr8, we just did bits of history in isolation which is worse than useless imo. What's the point of learning about the Tudors and Stewarts, say, without touching on the Plantagenets or the kings and queens of Scotland or France? Without the context, there's no point in knowing the specifics. It's like teaching cookery without kitchen hygiene or safety, yeah you might make some lovely cupcakes but you didn't clean the tray so now everybody's dead.
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.
Re: Untaught History
Religion and parliament, basically.
But yeah, history is so vast and requires all sorts of supporting subjects to really appreciate context it's hard to know where to start.
But yeah, history is so vast and requires all sorts of supporting subjects to really appreciate context it's hard to know where to start.
Re: Untaught History
That's the entire problem, it's hard enough fitting the kings and queens of England into the curriculum, never mind all the othr stuff. I, for example, would like to learn about the Kings and Queens of other European countries, but to my knowledge it wasn't even touched upon at school.
If anyone has any English language book recommndations, I woud be grateful actually.
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.
- Tessa K
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Re: Untaught History
I haven't looked at it in a while but A History of the British Isles by Jeremy Black isn't bad - it covers Scotland and Wales more than many books do and also touches on Ireland.nezumi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:38 amThat's the entire problem, it's hard enough fitting the kings and queens of England into the curriculum, never mind all the othr stuff. I, for example, would like to learn about the Kings and Queens of other European countries, but to my knowledge it wasn't even touched upon at school.
If anyone has any English language book recommndations, I woud be grateful actually.
Also JFC Harrison, The Common People: A History from the Norman Conquest to the Present . (It was written in 1984 so not that up to date but good on the earlier stuff that isn't kings and wars)
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- After Pie
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Re: Untaught History
Maybe history should be taught in classrooms which have a big timeline around the walls showing political, scientific, and arts for around the world. How many people know who was ruling England when Christopher Columbus made his first journey to America? And how many know who was emperor of China? What sort of music would Columbus have listened to?
- Tessa K
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Re: Untaught History
Early flamenco.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 amMaybe history should be taught in classrooms which have a big timeline around the walls showing political, scientific, and arts for around the world. How many people know who was ruling England when Christopher Columbus made his first journey to America? And how many know who was emperor of China? What sort of music would Columbus have listened to?
And yes, timelines would be very useful.
Re: Untaught History
Dan Jones covers 1,000 years of British history in 80 minutes in a History Extra podcast episode.
it's okay to say "I don't know"
Re: Untaught History
I need someone to make that chart cos I'd use it as wallpaper in my bedroom! It would certainly be big enough.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 amMaybe history should be taught in classrooms which have a big timeline around the walls showing political, scientific, and arts for around the world. How many people know who was ruling England when Christopher Columbus made his first journey to America? And how many know who was emperor of China? What sort of music would Columbus have listened to?
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.
- Tessa K
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Re: Untaught History
There are loads of charts available. Also, DK books are normally pretty good as introductions. This one has lots of illustrations [urlhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Timelines-World-Histor ... 0789489260[/url].nezumi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:43 pmI need someone to make that chart cos I'd use it as wallpaper in my bedroom! It would certainly be big enough.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 amMaybe history should be taught in classrooms which have a big timeline around the walls showing political, scientific, and arts for around the world. How many people know who was ruling England when Christopher Columbus made his first journey to America? And how many know who was emperor of China? What sort of music would Columbus have listened to?
You could make your own timeline chart from it to go on your walls and add in any extras that interest you.
Re: Untaught History
I have a feeling I saw something like this that was created for the Millennium. Somewhat like the Bayeux tapestry in presentation (though maybe in two or three parts) I have a feeling it was in a Cathedral or similar - but I can't remember whether it was in UK or abroad .Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 amMaybe history should be taught in classrooms which have a big timeline around the walls showing political, scientific, and arts for around the world. How many people know who was ruling England when Christopher Columbus made his first journey to America? And how many know who was emperor of China? What sort of music would Columbus have listened to?
Covered the main world and regional cultures, and had some details of science milestones, though I don't recall whether it had much in the way of the arts .
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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- After Pie
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Re: Untaught History
That Timelines book looks very nice.
And it occurs to me that a giant wallchart might be quite helpful for students to remember stuff, as it is similar to the memory palace technique.
And it occurs to me that a giant wallchart might be quite helpful for students to remember stuff, as it is similar to the memory palace technique.