Yeah, but its a good fantasy.bolo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:12 amThis might possibly result in more vaccine doses this time, but it would likely also result in no vaccine manufacturer ever agreeing to sell high profile vaccines to the EU ever again, so in the longer term it wouldn't exactly be constructive.Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:24 pmIf they want more vaccines, they'd be better off to take over AZ' plants, produce it themselves, and throw Pascal Soriot in the slammer.
Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
What would AstraZeneca issuing a legal notice to its Indian manufacturer over vaccine delivery delays achieve?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
No idea. Don't know what a "legal notice" is!shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:05 amWhat would AstraZeneca issuing a legal notice to its Indian manufacturer over vaccine delivery delays achieve?
Presumably it's something you send an entity threatening to take them to court of they don't do something?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Lines forming at the Great Western Hospital in Swindon???? People getting Pfizer by mistake instead of AZ.
Couple's shock delight after wrong second dose of Covid-19 jab given in vaccine mix-up at GWH
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... ix-up-gwh/
Couple's shock delight after wrong second dose of Covid-19 jab given in vaccine mix-up at GWH
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... ix-up-gwh/
Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Blimey, what a load of ill-informed twaddle.
I know that you're a bright lot, and it just shows how ill-served people are by the mass media that this is the speculation you come up with.
Just about the only sensible comment was this one:
Soirot couldn't be arrested for a civil offence of failing to deliver on a contract, any more than I could get the CEO of Tesco arrested for failing to deliver the Ben & Jerry's I put in my online shopping.
***********
7 billionish people need vaccinating. That's either 7 billion JnJ doses or 14 billion other vaccines. Then there's going to be a 2nd batch of vaccines at the end of this year/next year to cover the worst of the variants all in one (Brazil, SA, Kent, India & maybe the next one if it pops up quickly). All in all, something like 15-20 billion more vaccines need to be manufactured and stuck into people over the next 12-18 months or so. That can't be done without ramping up of manufacture of all vaccines.
The risk of blood clots, even of the AZ vaccine, is insignificant compared to the benefit (many orders of magnitude different risk), and it's only really in the EU where their failure to deliver has been an issue & they have been used as a political football. The rest of the world would kill to get hold of it. It's why India put an export ban on the vaccines being produced by the Serum Institute of India (ie the AZ vaccine, aka CHADOX). But we, as a species, need another 5 or so similarly-sized such factories up and running to get the vaccines (whichever ones) into people ASAP. We also need Johnson (de pfeffel, not & Johnson) to stop being a protectionist c.nt & the UK to drop its objections to any country just manufacturing CHADOX.
As for whether AZ will make vaccines again - well, they never really did before. The world would have been better off if Sanofi (who will be manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine from June in a factory in France) or Merck or some other company with more vaccine manufacturing experience had done the deal with Oxford. Then manufacturing and delivery would probably have been faster and they wouldn't have oversold so we would all have realistic expectations.
Lastly, the biggest economy in the world (the EEA) will continue to be a very attractive market to drugs companies. They will just take care not to oversell to us/competitors in the future.
I know that you're a bright lot, and it just shows how ill-served people are by the mass media that this is the speculation you come up with.
Just about the only sensible comment was this one:
The court case is all about the politically incompetent UvdL covering her sorry arse as part of her plan to return to Germany as a conquering hero & become the next-but-one chancellor.bolo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:16 amThe cynical view would be that success, from the EU perspective, would look like AZ getting the public blame for the AZ fiasco rather than the EU itself.bob sterman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:54 pmAnyone got any idea what this legal action could actually achieve? E.g. if the EU action was successful? What would success look like? Diversion of doses destined for other countries with contracts (that's not just the UK)? Compensation for EU? Court action can't speed up cell cultures.
Soirot couldn't be arrested for a civil offence of failing to deliver on a contract, any more than I could get the CEO of Tesco arrested for failing to deliver the Ben & Jerry's I put in my online shopping.
***********
7 billionish people need vaccinating. That's either 7 billion JnJ doses or 14 billion other vaccines. Then there's going to be a 2nd batch of vaccines at the end of this year/next year to cover the worst of the variants all in one (Brazil, SA, Kent, India & maybe the next one if it pops up quickly). All in all, something like 15-20 billion more vaccines need to be manufactured and stuck into people over the next 12-18 months or so. That can't be done without ramping up of manufacture of all vaccines.
The risk of blood clots, even of the AZ vaccine, is insignificant compared to the benefit (many orders of magnitude different risk), and it's only really in the EU where their failure to deliver has been an issue & they have been used as a political football. The rest of the world would kill to get hold of it. It's why India put an export ban on the vaccines being produced by the Serum Institute of India (ie the AZ vaccine, aka CHADOX). But we, as a species, need another 5 or so similarly-sized such factories up and running to get the vaccines (whichever ones) into people ASAP. We also need Johnson (de pfeffel, not & Johnson) to stop being a protectionist c.nt & the UK to drop its objections to any country just manufacturing CHADOX.
As for whether AZ will make vaccines again - well, they never really did before. The world would have been better off if Sanofi (who will be manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine from June in a factory in France) or Merck or some other company with more vaccine manufacturing experience had done the deal with Oxford. Then manufacturing and delivery would probably have been faster and they wouldn't have oversold so we would all have realistic expectations.
Lastly, the biggest economy in the world (the EEA) will continue to be a very attractive market to drugs companies. They will just take care not to oversell to us/competitors in the future.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
IIRC she only just scraped through at her confirmation by the EP and most of the German people I know who have any interest in politics think she's a lightweight (at best).
I don't think the EU has ever been what one would call a nimble organisation, but at least historically they kind of recognised that. The nearly-invoking-Article-16 debacle would never have happened with Juncker and Tusk in charge, even if it most of the action did take place after lunch on a Friday.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
It would have been Merck but for Hancock. Apparently Oxford had agreed a deal with them but Hancock refused to approve it.tom p wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:11 amThe world would have been better off if Sanofi (who will be manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine from June in a factory in France) or Merck or some other company with more vaccine manufacturing experience had done the deal with Oxford. Then manufacturing and delivery would probably have been faster and they wouldn't have oversold so we would all have realistic expectations.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rej ... y-12204044With the university and Merck "as close to signing on the dotted line as they could be", he stopped it going ahead, because he didn't want to risk the intellectual property rights for the Oxford vaccine ending up in the hands of a single American company.
"He was just meant to confirm he was happy, and then it would have happened immediately," said the former adviser. "But he wasn't, and overruled officials to block the deal."
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
I suspect that in the minds of a certain category of nostalgic Tory, AstraZeneca is still the pharmaceutical arm of Imperial Chemical Industries.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Oxford/AstraZeneca seems to have worked out fine for the UK though somehow. It's just the EU who got messed about (and then, of course, any country expecting to get it via the covax scheme, which the EU has contributed to).jdc wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:52 pmIt would have been Merck but for Hancock. Apparently Oxford had agreed a deal with them but Hancock refused to approve it.tom p wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:11 amThe world would have been better off if Sanofi (who will be manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine from June in a factory in France) or Merck or some other company with more vaccine manufacturing experience had done the deal with Oxford. Then manufacturing and delivery would probably have been faster and they wouldn't have oversold so we would all have realistic expectations.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rej ... y-12204044With the university and Merck "as close to signing on the dotted line as they could be", he stopped it going ahead, because he didn't want to risk the intellectual property rights for the Oxford vaccine ending up in the hands of a single American company.
"He was just meant to confirm he was happy, and then it would have happened immediately," said the former adviser. "But he wasn't, and overruled officials to block the deal."
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Blimey, I didn't know that. cheersjdc wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:52 pmIt would have been Merck but for Hancock. Apparently Oxford had agreed a deal with them but Hancock refused to approve it.tom p wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:11 amThe world would have been better off if Sanofi (who will be manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine from June in a factory in France) or Merck or some other company with more vaccine manufacturing experience had done the deal with Oxford. Then manufacturing and delivery would probably have been faster and they wouldn't have oversold so we would all have realistic expectations.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rej ... y-12204044With the university and Merck "as close to signing on the dotted line as they could be", he stopped it going ahead, because he didn't want to risk the intellectual property rights for the Oxford vaccine ending up in the hands of a single American company.
"He was just meant to confirm he was happy, and then it would have happened immediately," said the former adviser. "But he wasn't, and overruled officials to block the deal."
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
EU has not yet ordered more AstraZeneca vaccines
The European Union has not yet made any new orders for AstraZeneca vaccines beyond June when their contract ends, European Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton said on Sunday.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu ... 021-05-09/
The European Union has not made any new orders for AstraZeneca (AZN.L) vaccines beyond June when their contract ends, European Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton said on Sunday, after the EU signed a deal with Pfizer-BioNTech (PFE.N).
Breton also said he expected the costs of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines to be higher than the earlier versions.
The Commission last month launched legal action against AstraZeneca for not respecting its contract for the supply of COVID-19 vaccines and for not having a “reliable” plan to ensure timely deliveries.
"We did not renew the order after June. We’ll see what happens," Breton told France Inter radio. He did not rule out a potential renewal at a later stage.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Literally the same link two posts up.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:14 pmhttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu ... 021-05-09/
The European Union has not made any new orders for AstraZeneca (AZN.L) vaccines beyond June when their contract ends, European Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton said on Sunday, after the EU signed a deal with Pfizer-BioNTech (PFE.N).
Breton also said he expected the costs of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines to be higher than the earlier versions.
The Commission last month launched legal action against AstraZeneca for not respecting its contract for the supply of COVID-19 vaccines and for not having a “reliable” plan to ensure timely deliveries.
"We did not renew the order after June. We’ll see what happens," Breton told France Inter radio. He did not rule out a potential renewal at a later stage.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Behind a formidable paywall. Can you give us a precis?sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:16 pmDoes the AstraZeneca vaccine have a future?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
As ever with ft articles, if you google the words in the headline ( Does the AstraZeneca vaccine have a future? ) and the first google result should be the ft article itself which will open freely.Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:21 pmBehind a formidable paywall. Can you give us a precis?sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:16 pmDoes the AstraZeneca vaccine have a future?
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
I don't think it's got much of a future.
I suspect immune responses to the adenovirus vector will limit the extent to which it can be tweaked to provide a "booster" for new variants.
And given that Johnson & Johnson's adenovirus vector vaccine also seems to have clot risk problems (albeit at a lower rate) this could be inherent to this vector approach.
I suspect immune responses to the adenovirus vector will limit the extent to which it can be tweaked to provide a "booster" for new variants.
And given that Johnson & Johnson's adenovirus vector vaccine also seems to have clot risk problems (albeit at a lower rate) this could be inherent to this vector approach.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Its still significantly cheaper than Pfizer and others, so in poorer countries there may well still be a cost benefit argument for using the AZ vaccine. Its still better than not being vaccinated and there aren't enough doses of the other vaccines for everyone.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pmI don't think it's got much of a future.
I suspect immune responses to the adenovirus vector will limit the extent to which it can be tweaked to provide a "booster" for new variants.
And given that Johnson & Johnson's adenovirus vector vaccine also seems to have clot risk problems (albeit at a lower rate) this could be inherent to this vector approach.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
In the EU, Pfizer is managing to follow its rollout schedule such that we'll have received something like 0.5 doses per head of population by the end of June.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:26 amIts still significantly cheaper than Pfizer and others, so in poorer countries there may well still be a cost benefit argument for using the AZ vaccine. Its still better than not being vaccinated and there aren't enough doses of the other vaccines for everyone.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pmI don't think it's got much of a future.
I suspect immune responses to the adenovirus vector will limit the extent to which it can be tweaked to provide a "booster" for new variants.
And given that Johnson & Johnson's adenovirus vector vaccine also seems to have clot risk problems (albeit at a lower rate) this could be inherent to this vector approach.
AstraZeneca said they would have delivered a bit less than that (~0.43) by the end of June but they've so far delivered about 0.12 doses per head. Maybe they'll actually reach about ~0.17 by the end of June, barely 40% of what they said they would. So at least over here it's been the AZ of which there weren't enough of, but then again, people are choosing Pfizer if given a choice (although significant numbers are choosing AstraZeneca now compared to Pfizer eventually).
So I'm not optimistic about AZ being able to vaccinate the world when they've so heavily failed to meet their obligations in the EU.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
Certainly. I was thinking about the longer term prospects. Europe will have vaccinated everyone by the end of the year. But its going to take much longer for the rest of the world. I think there is still a logic for a much cheaper AZ vaccine in developing countries.shpalman wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:38 amIn the EU, Pfizer is managing to follow its rollout schedule such that we'll have received something like 0.5 doses per head of population by the end of June.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:26 amIts still significantly cheaper than Pfizer and others, so in poorer countries there may well still be a cost benefit argument for using the AZ vaccine. Its still better than not being vaccinated and there aren't enough doses of the other vaccines for everyone.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pmI don't think it's got much of a future.
I suspect immune responses to the adenovirus vector will limit the extent to which it can be tweaked to provide a "booster" for new variants.
And given that Johnson & Johnson's adenovirus vector vaccine also seems to have clot risk problems (albeit at a lower rate) this could be inherent to this vector approach.
AstraZeneca said they would have delivered a bit less than that (~0.43) by the end of June but they've so far delivered about 0.12 doses per head. Maybe they'll actually reach about ~0.17 by the end of June, barely 40% of what they said they would. So at least over here it's been the AZ of which there weren't enough of, but then again, people are choosing Pfizer if given a choice (although significant numbers are choosing AstraZeneca now compared to Pfizer eventually).
So I'm not optimistic about AZ being able to vaccinate the world when they've so heavily failed to meet their obligations in the EU.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
If they can resolve their production difficulties. Vaccinating billions of people requires billions of vaccines x2. AZ doesn't seem to be able to do that.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:21 amCertainly. I was thinking about the longer term prospects. Europe will have vaccinated everyone by the end of the year. But its going to take much longer for the rest of the world. I think there is still a logic for a much cheaper AZ vaccine in developing countries.shpalman wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:38 amIn the EU, Pfizer is managing to follow its rollout schedule such that we'll have received something like 0.5 doses per head of population by the end of June.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:26 am
Its still significantly cheaper than Pfizer and others, so in poorer countries there may well still be a cost benefit argument for using the AZ vaccine. Its still better than not being vaccinated and there aren't enough doses of the other vaccines for everyone.
AstraZeneca said they would have delivered a bit less than that (~0.43) by the end of June but they've so far delivered about 0.12 doses per head. Maybe they'll actually reach about ~0.17 by the end of June, barely 40% of what they said they would. So at least over here it's been the AZ of which there weren't enough of, but then again, people are choosing Pfizer if given a choice (although significant numbers are choosing AstraZeneca now compared to Pfizer eventually).
So I'm not optimistic about AZ being able to vaccinate the world when they've so heavily failed to meet their obligations in the EU.
Pfizer has done better with the supposedly more difficult and complex mRNA vaccine.
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?
The great thing about the Janssen (J&J) vaccine is that by only having one dose, you almost completely eliminate logistics. You can turn up in a village somewhere with a van and vaccinate everyone who wants it, give them a card and move on. No need to coordinate follow-up in three or eight weeks time. It probably allows you to vaccinate three or four times the number of people for the same amount of resources. It's also that rare thing in economics, a good that everyone wants but nobody wants or can really use more than one of (give or take the possibility of a local black market in some cases, I suppose).Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:15 pmIf they can resolve their production difficulties. Vaccinating billions of people requires billions of vaccines x2. AZ doesn't seem to be able to do that.
Pfizer has done better with the supposedly more difficult and complex mRNA vaccine.
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