"Yebbut they're still English, right?"OffTheRock wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:41 pmAlthough tbf this isn’t helped by a number of people not realising the Channel Islands are not part of the U.K. and have a different government.
International travel
- sTeamTraen
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Re: International travel
Something something hammer something something nail
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Re: International travel
UK Newspapers seem to be having another round of articles acting as though having one or two cheap holidays abroad each year is a human right, and it would therefore be 'discriminatory' to make people pay a lot for Covid tests.
I'm getting frustrated that no one seems to be taking the opportunity to question whether having people able to pay £20 for an overseas flight for a stag night etc. was ever really that good an idea for the planet or the destination and whether it might be better not to support a return to the previous 'normal'.
I'm getting frustrated that no one seems to be taking the opportunity to question whether having people able to pay £20 for an overseas flight for a stag night etc. was ever really that good an idea for the planet or the destination and whether it might be better not to support a return to the previous 'normal'.
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Re: International travel
International travel as we thought of it pre-pandemic, is dead. It is probably better for the planet anyway.Hunting Dog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:43 pmUK Newspapers seem to be having another round of articles acting as though having one or two cheap holidays abroad each year is a human right, and it would therefore be 'discriminatory' to make people pay a lot for Covid tests.
I'm getting frustrated that no one seems to be taking the opportunity to question whether having people able to pay £20 for an overseas flight for a stag night etc. was ever really that good an idea for the planet or the destination and whether it might be better not to support a return to the previous 'normal'.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: International travel
Like the Python parrot, it's not dead, it's only resting.
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- After Pie
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Re: International travel
Well, maybe. Time will tell. I'd like to travel as much as anyone but I am not making any plans.
In fact,I am not even hoping for it much anymore.
A friend said she was going to get the vaccine because she wanted to travel.
I said I got it because I wanred to stay alive.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
The fault is probably with the edgelord journalist rather than the well akshully psychologists and behavioural scientists, but
wot they reckon is that covid-status certificates could lead to deliberate infections.
The not-peer-reviewed preprint is Behavioural responses to Covid-19 health certification: A rapid review.
wot they reckon is that covid-status certificates could lead to deliberate infections.
The not-peer-reviewed preprint is Behavioural responses to Covid-19 health certification: A rapid review.
Well here's an idea: how about you f.cking consider them, then. And get a clue about the nature and scale too and whether it's more or less than the potential benefits? Isn't it your f.cking job to figure that out?The potential benefits of certificates, such as enabling people to go to events and travel more freely and safely, need to be considered in the context of their potential for harm, say the authors, “but the nature and scale of these remains uncertain. Also uncertain is how any harms might most effectively be mitigated.”
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
Flying is still dangerous, even for vaccinated people.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flyi ... index.html"Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others," according to the CDC, as respiratory droplets fall onto surfaces or float in the air. "We're still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease," the agency added.
Early in the pandemic, according to a CDC investigation, an unmasked passenger with no symptoms infected 12 fellow business class travelers, two people seated in economy and one crew member on a 10-hour international flight.
Last summer, 13 asymptomatic people on an international flight into Ireland infected another 46 people in six regions of the country, despite some use of masks on the plane. And in September, nine people tested positive after a flight from India to New Zealand, despite the fact that masks were mandatory on the plane.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
My two favourite countries (outside UK), Australia and China are both covid free. China is starting to open international travel.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/covi ... index.htmlChina is making it easier for foreigners to enter the country. But there's one condition: they need to have received a China-made Covid-19 vaccine.
At least 23 Chinese embassies around the world issued new visa policies over the past week with this condition, including in the United States and United Kingdom -- both places where Chinese vaccines aren't available.
China's foreign ministry says the move is about kick-starting international travel in an "orderly fashion," and vaccinated travelers will still face state-run quarantine on arrival.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:10 pmFlying is still dangerous, even for vaccinated people.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flyi ... index.html"Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others," according to the CDC, as respiratory droplets fall onto surfaces or float in the air. "We're still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease," the agency added.
Early in the pandemic, according to a CDC investigation, an unmasked and unvaccinated passenger with no symptoms infected 12 fellow unvaccinated business class travelers, two unvaccinated people seated in economy and one unvaccinated crew member on a 10-hour international flight.
Last summer, 13 asymptomatic and unvaccinated people on an international flight into Ireland infected another unvaccinated 46 people in six regions of the country, despite some use of masks on the plane but no use of vaccines. And in September, nine people unvaccinated tested positive after a flight from India to New Zealand, despite the fact that masks were mandatory on the plane but vaccines weren't because they hadn't been invented yet. Still, this tells us something useful about vaccinations apparently.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
And your point is what?shpalman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:50 pmHerainestold wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:10 pmFlying is still dangerous, even for vaccinated people.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flyi ... index.html"Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others," according to the CDC, as respiratory droplets fall onto surfaces or float in the air. "We're still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease," the agency added.
Early in the pandemic, according to a CDC investigation, an unmasked and unvaccinated passenger with no symptoms infected 12 fellow unvaccinated business class travelers, two unvaccinated people seated in economy and one unvaccinated crew member on a 10-hour international flight.
Last summer, 13 asymptomatic and unvaccinated people on an international flight into Ireland infected another unvaccinated 46 people in six regions of the country, despite some use of masks on the plane but no use of vaccines. And in September, nine people unvaccinated tested positive after a flight from India to New Zealand, despite the fact that masks were mandatory on the plane but vaccines weren't because they hadn't been invented yet. Still, this tells us something useful about vaccinations apparently.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
My point is that anecdotes about unvaccinated people catching covid on flights tells us literally nothing about whether vaccinated people will catch or spread covid on flights.
Except in the sense that vaccination does not give 100% protection and we still don't know to what extent it makes a person less infectious, which we already knew and has got nothing to do with flights in particular.
Except in the sense that vaccination does not give 100% protection and we still don't know to what extent it makes a person less infectious, which we already knew and has got nothing to do with flights in particular.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
Well if vaccine protection is 90%, 10% of the passengers could become infected.shpalman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:34 pmMy point is that anecdotes about unvaccinated people catching covid on flights tells us literally nothing about whether vaccinated people will catch or spread covid on flights.
Except in the sense that vaccination does not give 100% protection and we still don't know to what extent it makes a person less infectious, which we already knew and has got nothing to do with flights in particular.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
It's not like 100% of the passengers got infected in those cases. Vaccines make everything safer but nothing perfectly safe.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
The vaccine will -most of the time- keep you fron dying, but its less effective against moderat or mild illness and its effect on asymptomatic illness is unknown but probably low. It protects against infection but not against transmission. So it doesn't help much for herd immunity. If large scale air travel resumes 10-20% of the passengers will be infected and carrying those infections to new places. It could be a big disaster.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
Yes, this is true, and it's why vaccinated British tourists can't come to the continent until we're all vaccinated here too, for example.Herainestold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:02 amThe vaccine will -most of the time- keep you fron dying, but its less effective against moderat or mild illness and its effect on asymptomatic illness is unknown but probably low. It protects against infection but not against transmission. So it doesn't help much for herd immunity. If large scale air travel resumes 10-20% of the passengers will be infected and carrying those infections to new places. It could be a big disaster.
But you could have just said that instead of including some quote about people with or without masks getting infected on flights.
(In Italy the tourism sector is asking for priority for vaccines, along with every other sector, whereas Italy is finally trying to prioritise "the old and fragile", while of course I'm being hypocritical, having gotten myself vaccinated as a "teacher" on the first day that I could despite being neither old nor fragile when I might have about 8 hours in total in a lecture theater in May.)
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
I've just realised that planes flying over my suburb at 6 am, heading for Australia, have just become a regular thing again. I'd become used to the quiet.
Money is just a substitute for luck anyway. - Tom Siddell
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Re: International travel
Easyjet urges UK to put most of Europe on ‘green’ Covid travel list because of course it does.
And then, even vaccinated UK travellers will bring some covids with them into not-so-vaccinated Europe.
The number of cases which travel from Europe would let into the UK depends on the case rate in Europe, not in the UK, so it makes no sense to give the answer in terms of a percentage.EasyJet said research commissioned from epidemiologists at Yale University in the US showed unrestricted travel from much of Europe would increase hospital admissions by 4%, or six cases in the UK on the current daily average.
And then, even vaccinated UK travellers will bring some covids with them into not-so-vaccinated Europe.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
The only places you should be allowed to travel are places with no covid. Australia and China. Israel. Those countries won't won't let us in anyway.shpalman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:00 pmEasyjet urges UK to put most of Europe on ‘green’ Covid travel list because of course it does.
The number of cases which travel from Europe would let into the UK depends on the case rate in Europe, not in the UK, so it makes no sense to give the answer in terms of a percentage.EasyJet said research commissioned from epidemiologists at Yale University in the US showed unrestricted travel from much of Europe would increase hospital admissions by 4%, or six cases in the UK on the current daily average.
And then, even vaccinated UK travellers will bring some covids with them into not-so-vaccinated Europe.
So stay home.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: International travel
Dave Keating on "vaccine passports" https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... 23106?s=19
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
As far as I'm aware, a fairly substantial part of the advertising income of the Mail (and presumably other right-wing papers) comes (or maybe these days only came) from advertising foreign holidays/cruises. I wonder how this is going to play out.
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"
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Re: International travel
Cruise ships are giant petri dishes for disease even when there isn't a pandemic. Let it sink.
The idea of putting all the older Mail readers on a boat together and letting covid sort them out isn't actually a good idea.
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Re: International travel
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: International travel
I would concur. Look at what is happening in India. Do we want to import that variant ?
We need to await the next round of vaccinations which have been tweaked to stop that variant. If possible.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: International travel
We already have.Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:33 pmI would concur. Look at what is happening in India. Do we want to import that variant?
Does the India variant sidestep current vaccines? I read somewhere that it doesn’t, but I’m not sure if I dreamt it.Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:33 pmWe need to await the next round of vaccinations which have been tweaked to stop that variant. If possible.