Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

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Fishnut
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Fishnut » Tue May 25, 2021 3:24 pm

A reminder that police excessive use of force is not restricted to any particular country. An inquest is currently underway in Perth, Australia, following the death of an indigenous man in 2017 who was tasered by police 10 times in less than two minutes.
Footage shot by witnesses showed Riley wailing as he was held down for seven minutes before an ambulance arrived.
It's all so depressingly familiar.

If you're wondering what he did to warrant such measures,
..two police officers had attended the Officeworks store in East Perth in May 2017 in response to unrelated reports of a robbery. They were alerted to Riley who was seen rocking from side to side and slapping his forehead... The officers approached the father of six and called triple zero to request an ambulance when he did not engage with them. Collins said Riley had then advanced on police and shouted “I’m going to kill you”, prompting Const Rory Winterburn to discharge his Taser. The police officers attempted to restrain the prone man as he struggled. “During this resistance, Mr Riley made repeated and continuous attempts to take possession of Constable [James] Wolfe’s firearm and bit down hard on Constable Wolfe’s arm causing it to bleed heavily,” Collins told the inquest.
Given that this is the police version of events, I will admit to having some skepticism. Though even if an accurate rendition of events, it suggests to me a serious need to improve police training to deal with mentally unwell people. Where's the attempt at de-escalating? Why is your immediate reaction to taser the guy? Just because he said he's going to kill you doesn't mean you have to take him seriously. He's an unarmed guy clearly going through a mental health crisis who's more a risk to himself than others.

It's also worth taking a look at the original reporting,
A man has died after he was allegedly Tasered by a police officer in East Perth on Friday. Police were responding to a robbery in Lord Street around 11.35am, when officers came across a man that needed medical attention. As officers helped the man he became aggressive and a police officer was injured. A officer then allegedly Tasered the man who became unresponsive. The man was taken to Royal Perth Hospital and died a short time later.
Once again we have no mention of restraint, a distortion of the timeline - the man was actually tasered before any physical contact with him was made - and an attempt to make it seem like he lived longer than he did. The Guardian say that he was taken to hospital where "he was pronounced dead" which sounds to me like he was dead on arrival. It's a minor point but it's something I've noticed in several of these cases. There seems to be this desire to distance the officers physically from the death. You didn't kill him, he just got sick and died elsewhere.
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Martin_B » Wed May 26, 2021 5:18 am

Fishnut wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 3:24 pm
A reminder that police excessive use of force is not restricted to any particular country. An inquest is currently underway in Perth, Australia, following the death of an indigenous man in 2017 who was tasered by police 10 times in less than two minutes.
Footage shot by witnesses showed Riley wailing as he was held down for seven minutes before an ambulance arrived.
It's all so depressingly familiar.

If you're wondering what he did to warrant such measures,
..two police officers had attended the Officeworks store in East Perth in May 2017 in response to unrelated reports of a robbery. They were alerted to Riley who was seen rocking from side to side and slapping his forehead... The officers approached the father of six and called triple zero to request an ambulance when he did not engage with them. Collins said Riley had then advanced on police and shouted “I’m going to kill you”, prompting Const Rory Winterburn to discharge his Taser. The police officers attempted to restrain the prone man as he struggled. “During this resistance, Mr Riley made repeated and continuous attempts to take possession of Constable [James] Wolfe’s firearm and bit down hard on Constable Wolfe’s arm causing it to bleed heavily,” Collins told the inquest.
Given that this is the police version of events, I will admit to having some skepticism. Though even if an accurate rendition of events, it suggests to me a serious need to improve police training to deal with mentally unwell people. Where's the attempt at de-escalating? Why is your immediate reaction to taser the guy? Just because he said he's going to kill you doesn't mean you have to take him seriously. He's an unarmed guy clearly going through a mental health crisis who's more a risk to himself than others.

It's also worth taking a look at the original reporting,
A man has died after he was allegedly Tasered by a police officer in East Perth on Friday. Police were responding to a robbery in Lord Street around 11.35am, when officers came across a man that needed medical attention. As officers helped the man he became aggressive and a police officer was injured. A officer then allegedly Tasered the man who became unresponsive. The man was taken to Royal Perth Hospital and died a short time later.
Once again we have no mention of restraint, a distortion of the timeline - the man was actually tasered before any physical contact with him was made - and an attempt to make it seem like he lived longer than he did. The Guardian say that he was taken to hospital where "he was pronounced dead" which sounds to me like he was dead on arrival. It's a minor point but it's something I've noticed in several of these cases. There seems to be this desire to distance the officers physically from the death. You didn't kill him, he just got sick and died elsewhere.
As an aside to this, the Officeworks store in East Perth (now since closed) was approximately 50 m from Royal Perth Hospital.

I wouldn't say:
The Guardian say that he was taken to hospital where "he was pronounced dead" which sounds to me like he was dead on arrival.
says anything like that at all. If he was taken to hospital and found dead on arrival, it would say "pronounced dead on arrival" rather than "pronounced dead". I take that to mean that he died at hospital and no indication on timescale is noted. Although given the police report says 'dies a short time later', it might mean after arrival but before a doctor could treat him.
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by jdc » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:40 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other

I can see why one cop was arrested for murder. Kicking an unconscious man in the head several times is reasonable grounds to charge almost any attacker if the victim dies.
Cleared of the murder charge but later found guilty of manslaughter and got 8 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-57603091
Speaking after the conviction, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said it was the first time in over 30 years that a British police officer had been convicted of manslaughter in the course of their duties.

Although there have been 10 murder or manslaughter charges brought against police officers since 1990, those accused have all either been acquitted or the case has collapsed.

Monk is also believed to be the first officer to face a murder charge after a person had been tasered by police.

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:25 pm

jdc wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:40 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other

I can see why one cop was arrested for murder. Kicking an unconscious man in the head several times is reasonable grounds to charge almost any attacker if the victim dies.
Cleared of the murder charge but later found guilty of manslaughter and got 8 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-57603091
Speaking after the conviction, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said it was the first time in over 30 years that a British police officer had been convicted of manslaughter in the course of their duties.

Although there have been 10 murder or manslaughter charges brought against police officers since 1990, those accused have all either been acquitted or the case has collapsed.

Monk is also believed to be the first officer to face a murder charge after a person had been tasered by police.
And of course, he had been disciplined for gross misconduct before this.

Not as bad as the killer of Ian Tomlinson, who had a string of disciplinary offences for violence and who got off completely.
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Fishnut
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Fishnut » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:40 pm

A care worker who was assaulted during an arrest has been told that 'reasonable force' was used. He said he followed instructions,
“Yet I was dragged and slammed to the floor from the passenger side of the car and was violently kicked twice – once to my upper body and once to the face which resulted in blood gushing from my face.”

He added: “After I was assaulted and placed in handcuffs I was pulled to my feet. During this whole process I wasn’t given any indication or information as to why I was in this position. I was scared for my life with several guns pointing at me.”
The police performed an internal investigation and concluded that they had,
“complied with their responsibilities in law and there was no evidence of police misconduct”...

A spokesperson for South Yorkshire Police said: “On 22 May 2020, officers conducting a pre-planned operation in connection to a series of violent assaults using weapons stopped a vehicle matching the description of that used by the suspected offender in Saville Street, Sheffield.
The guy was, of course, black. He was also, of course, not the person they were looking for;
Once Musa had been detained, police officers took his details and found that they did not match with anybody they had a warrant for.
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by IvanV » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:13 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:40 pm
A care worker who was assaulted during an arrest has been told that 'reasonable force' was used. He said he followed instructions,
“Yet I was dragged and slammed to the floor from the passenger side of the car and was violently kicked twice – once to my upper body and once to the face which resulted in blood gushing from my face.”

He added: “After I was assaulted and placed in handcuffs I was pulled to my feet. During this whole process I wasn’t given any indication or information as to why I was in this position. I was scared for my life with several guns pointing at me.”
The police performed an internal investigation and concluded that they had,
“complied with their responsibilities in law and there was no evidence of police misconduct”...

A spokesperson for South Yorkshire Police said: “On 22 May 2020, officers conducting a pre-planned operation in connection to a series of violent assaults using weapons stopped a vehicle matching the description of that used by the suspected offender in Saville Street, Sheffield.
The guy was, of course, black. He was also, of course, not the person they were looking for;
Once Musa had been detained, police officers took his details and found that they did not match with anybody they had a warrant for.
At a lower level of damage, this is basically the same issue as Jean Charles de Menezes and Harry Stanley who were both shot dead not resisting arrest while misidentified as suspects carrying lethal weapons.

Misidentified suspects often do not behave as the police expect, because the situation is a complete surprise to them and, being neither a criminal nor having a lethal weapon, don't understand the need to reassure the police that they are putting the police at no risk. So they do things that make the police think they are in danger, while having no understanding that they did that.

Given the eventual outcomes of those cases, I would think that the South Yorkshire careworker has a reasonable case in court for compensation. In a fairer society, they should be compensated without even having to ask for it.

We can understand that the police do need to take firm action when they think they are facing a dangerous situation, if we want them to face dangerous situations on our behalf. And policemen are also going to be put in situations where they will misidentify suspects. But I think we as society should also understand the need adequately to compensate those who suffer as a result.

Unfortunately when the government last overhauled compensation laws for the wrongfully imprisoned, it made it virtually impossible for them to gain compensation. It's a parallel situation, and part of the creeping authoritarianism of our present governance.

ETA: And the police really hate admitting errors, even when little damage is done. An acquaintance (middle class, well spoken, fair skinned) was once arrested about to go in through his front door, by a police officer who followed him there, with an "Are you (correct and very unusual name) of (address he was standing at)?" He was held in the police station for 5 hours without any questioning or discussion of why he was there, and then released. He was refused any explanation, as the error that had led to this was doubtless far too embarrassing to own up to. He wasn't going to get more than about 50p for wrongful arrest, so it ended there.

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Trinucleus » Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:44 pm

South Yorkshire police are beyond reproach

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by snoozeofreason » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:38 am

In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Fishnut » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:29 am

I meant to post this a few days ago but never got round to it, so thanks! The level of incompetence being shown by the police really quite astounding, not just in the immediate negligence of allowing an illegal raid to go ahead and not recording the names of the officers involved, but in their pathetic attempts to excuse themselves. If you're going to try and do a cover-up, at least do it well.

I was particularly annoyed at the raid as the squatters were running a "pay what you want" bookshop in the shop below, and I was going to visit when I was next in Bristol, which turned out to be a couple of days after the raid.
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Millennie Al » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:06 am

Are we to believe that the officers involved were not paid? Or that the force's finance department is so negligent that it does not keep proper records of who is paid - essential for tax purposes?

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Fishnut » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 pm

One of the protestors at the Kill the Bill protest has been imprisoned for 14 years. Ryan Roberts, 25, was convicted of five offences:
- riot
- attempted arson with intent to endanger life
- attempted arson being reckless as to whether life is endangered
- two counts of arson being reckless as to whether life is endangered

The descriptions of his behaviour are despicable. But I'm reminded that those descriptions are by the same police who claimed that multiple officers were left with broken bones and a punctured lung following the protests, claims they later had to retract. I'm also reminded of the multiple instances of unprovoked police brutality during the protests that may have led people to act in a retaliatory manner. I don't know if that's what happened here, or if Roberts took advantage of a volatile situation to commit premeditated acts of violence. But either way 14 years feels a very long time.
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:01 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 pm
One of the protestors at the Kill the Bill protest has been imprisoned for 14 years. Ryan Roberts, 25, was convicted of five offences:
- riot
- attempted arson with intent to endanger life
- attempted arson being reckless as to whether life is endangered
- two counts of arson being reckless as to whether life is endangered

The descriptions of his behaviour are despicable.
Yes, he appears to have tried to set fire to police vehicles, while the officers were still inside them. There is a line between a protest and a riot, and he definitely crossed it.
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 pm
But I'm reminded that those descriptions are by the same police who claimed that multiple officers were left with broken bones and a punctured lung following the protests, claims they later had to retract.
The article you linked to mentions video evidence, so there probably isn't doubt as to whether committed the crimes he was accused of.
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 pm
I'm also reminded of the multiple instances of unprovoked police brutality during the protests that may have led people to act in a retaliatory manner. I don't know if that's what happened here, or if Roberts took advantage of a volatile situation to commit premeditated acts of violence.
If Roberts was thought to have retaliated that wouldn't have reduced his sentence. There isn't a provocation defence for arson.

I don't think that he could have claimed to have momentarily lost control of his actions. As he apparently he tried several times to set light to the vehicles there was a degree of premeditation. As to whether he planned it in advance one issue is what he used to try to start the fire. But that's not mentioned in the article.
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 pm
But either way 14 years feels a very long time.
Yes, it is a long sentence, but in general arson is a serious offence.

The maximum sentence of arson is life, but normally people wouldn't get that. I had a look at the sentencing guidelines . His actions were clearly among the most serious offenses, and normally they'd go up to 12 years. However, "In exceptional cases within category 1A, sentences of above 12 years may be appropriate". Looking at the list of aggravating factors, and just based upon the one news article, he seems to be covered by several of them. So 14 years doesn't look like the judge lost the plot.

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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by Fishnut » Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:57 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other

I can see why one cop was arrested for murder. Kicking an unconscious man in the head several times is reasonable grounds to charge almost any attacker if the victim dies.
I'd somehow forgotten about this thread but I saw this story and it rang bells. A quick search has brought me back.

For those who have also forgotten, Dalian Atkinson was a former footballer who was killed by police in 2016. PC Benjamin Monk and PC Mary-Ellen Bettley-Smith were called to the home of Atkinson's father in the early hours of the morning as Atkinson was behaving erratically while in the midst of a mental health crisis. Monk tazed Atkinson twice without any apparent effect. Monk then tazed him a third time, for 33 seconds, resulting in Atkinson becoming incapacitated and collapsing to the ground. He then kicked Atkinson "as though he was kicking a football" according to one eye-witness and stamped on his head. The force was sufficient to "leave the imprints of the pattern of the laces from the top of his boot on two separate areas of Mr Atkinson’s forehead" according to the Alexandra Healy QC. While Atkinson was laying on the ground, Bettley-Smith stuck him six times with her baton.

In 2021 Monk was sentenced to 8 years in jail for manslaughter, the first time in over 30 years that a British police officer has been convicted of manslaughter, according to the BBC.

The jury was unable to reach a verdict about Bettley-Smith and she recently faced a disciplinary panel. The results are what's brought me back because I think they're indicative of what's wrong with the police. She was found guilty of gross misconduct. She was found to have used excessive force when beating Atkinson. The person defending her admitted that she made the wrong decision while under pressure - “This involves a miscalculation in the heat of moment in the degree of force which still now needed to be used”. Yet despite all this, she is keeping her job.

I don't think I can sum things up any better than Atkinson's family,
“Dalian Atkinson’s family welcomes the panel’s decision that the assault on Dalian as he was dying constitutes gross misconduct. However, as a probationary officer, having demonstrated such violence and poor judgment, it is very concerning that she was not dismissed immediately this afternoon and that she will be put back on the streets as a serving police officer. This brings the police service into deeper disrepute.”
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Re: Police Brutality and Media Cover-Ups

Post by jimbob » Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:39 am

Fishnut wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:57 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other

I can see why one cop was arrested for murder. Kicking an unconscious man in the head several times is reasonable grounds to charge almost any attacker if the victim dies.
I'd somehow forgotten about this thread but I saw this story and it rang bells. A quick search has brought me back.

For those who have also forgotten, Dalian Atkinson was a former footballer who was killed by police in 2016. PC Benjamin Monk and PC Mary-Ellen Bettley-Smith were called to the home of Atkinson's father in the early hours of the morning as Atkinson was behaving erratically while in the midst of a mental health crisis. Monk tazed Atkinson twice without any apparent effect. Monk then tazed him a third time, for 33 seconds, resulting in Atkinson becoming incapacitated and collapsing to the ground. He then kicked Atkinson "as though he was kicking a football" according to one eye-witness and stamped on his head. The force was sufficient to "leave the imprints of the pattern of the laces from the top of his boot on two separate areas of Mr Atkinson’s forehead" according to the Alexandra Healy QC. While Atkinson was laying on the ground, Bettley-Smith stuck him six times with her baton.

In 2021 Monk was sentenced to 8 years in jail for manslaughter, the first time in over 30 years that a British police officer has been convicted of manslaughter, according to the BBC.

The jury was unable to reach a verdict about Bettley-Smith and she recently faced a disciplinary panel. The results are what's brought me back because I think they're indicative of what's wrong with the police. She was found guilty of gross misconduct. She was found to have used excessive force when beating Atkinson. The person defending her admitted that she made the wrong decision while under pressure - “This involves a miscalculation in the heat of moment in the degree of force which still now needed to be used”. Yet despite all this, she is keeping her job.

I don't think I can sum things up any better than Atkinson's family,
“Dalian Atkinson’s family welcomes the panel’s decision that the assault on Dalian as he was dying constitutes gross misconduct. However, as a probationary officer, having demonstrated such violence and poor judgment, it is very concerning that she was not dismissed immediately this afternoon and that she will be put back on the streets as a serving police officer. This brings the police service into deeper disrepute.”
Agree entirely.

Gross misconduct is grounds for immediate firing in any reasonable organisation.

Violent gross misconduct... Words fail me.
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