Male violence and harassment of women

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Tessa K
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:17 am

A study in 2014 by academics at Lancaster University looked at the number of reports of abuse to a police force in the north-west of England during three football World Cups. They found that such reports increased by 26% when the national team won or drew, and by 38% when the team lost
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... match-ends
A study published on July 4 from the Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) found that after the final whistle, domestic abuse incidents grow by 5% every two hours, peaking at about 8.5% more incidents than average ten hours after the game started.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/domestic-viol ... 58119.html

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:28 am

https://twitter.com/oliviaatrobey/statu ... 7175303168
A man at @Wimbledon just grabbed me and started screaming sexist abuse at me. I burst into tears as I was really shocked and he was removed for 5 mins by ushers. He was then allowed to return to his seat behind me. I sat in tears scared for the rest of the game.
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Tessa K
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am


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jimbob
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
Yup
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Sciolus
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Sciolus » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:50 pm

Well, thank goodness Couzens has been sacked. This will send a clear message that high-profile murderers aren't tolerated in the Met, even if other sexual offenders are.

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Grumble
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
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jimbob
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:14 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
Yes, I know my son did on occasion pull up other boys at school, but it was probably easier for him than most as he's quite confident on stage and had a reputation for vocally expressing liberal views and is close to his sisters.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Grumble
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:32 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
Of course it is. I feel like one of the voices was trying to challenge the others - the one asking if someone unconscious can consent, in the short clip it’s impossible to know if he actually got his message across and continued to press the point. I think he is standing against the “jokes” of the others and hope that he wasn’t the only one doing so.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:23 am

This is a horrifying article. It's a litany of failures to provide justice to rape victims.

The police accused Emily Hunt of pretending it was rape so that she wouldn't be accused of cheating by her boyfriend. (She was single at the time.)

The police wanted to take Hunt's phone the morning after the rape and ended up taking numbers to "check my story out", even though she wasn't ready to tell people what had happened.

The police wanted to take Hunt's clothes, in the middle of the night, without providing replacements. And when she refused labelled her as "difficult".

Days later the police informed Hunt that sex had taken place but when she asked about the risks to her health was told "Oh, you don’t need to worry, they found used condoms on the scene." and that "‘We didn’t have to tell you, it’s just a courtesy."

The toxicology report contained multiple mistakes and concluded that Hunt had not been drugged. Hunt's rapist, Killick, was revealed to have been sober at the time and carrying Viagra and a drug believed to be LSD.

Police arrested Killick but didn't charge him, citing a "lack of evidence" (despite there being CCTV footage of her stumbling and appearing intoxicated and him claiming he thought she "might be mentally ill or on drugs").

Over a year later Hunt was informed that Killick had filmed her, unconscious and naked. She was told there was nothing illegal about this. After much campaigning to get the law changed to make it illegal, she received a letter from the Ministry of Justice explaining actually it was already illegal and eventually a case was brought and the rapist was sentenced, and placed on the sex offender list for 5 years.

In May, Killick stood as an independent candidate in the Hartlepool byelection, revealing that registered sex offenders can run for public office. There is now a petition to change the law to prevent this.

Incredibly, there are some positive steps including one from my local police force (Avon & Somerset) which has a pilot project that is shifting the focus of credibility from the victim to the perpetrator. About bl..dy time, and I really hope it produces good results. As the piece points out, while most men are not rapists, rapists are usually multiple rapists. One study found "some suspects were linked to up to 19 sex crimes (and 60.5% were linked to other types of crime)" while a US study found that unprosecuted rapists committed an average of 5.8 rapes. So prosecuting and convicting these people not only provides justice for their victims but prevents there being new victims.
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Grumble
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:37 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:23 am
This is a horrifying article. It's a litany of failures to provide justice to rape victims.

The police accused Emily Hunt of pretending it was rape so that she wouldn't be accused of cheating by her boyfriend. (She was single at the time.)

The police wanted to take Hunt's phone the morning after the rape and ended up taking numbers to "check my story out", even though she wasn't ready to tell people what had happened.

The police wanted to take Hunt's clothes, in the middle of the night, without providing replacements. And when she refused labelled her as "difficult".

Days later the police informed Hunt that sex had taken place but when she asked about the risks to her health was told "Oh, you don’t need to worry, they found used condoms on the scene." and that "‘We didn’t have to tell you, it’s just a courtesy."

The toxicology report contained multiple mistakes and concluded that Hunt had not been drugged. Hunt's rapist, Killick, was revealed to have been sober at the time and carrying Viagra and a drug believed to be LSD.

Police arrested Killick but didn't charge him, citing a "lack of evidence" (despite there being CCTV footage of her stumbling and appearing intoxicated and him claiming he thought she "might be mentally ill or on drugs").

Over a year later Hunt was informed that Killick had filmed her, unconscious and naked. She was told there was nothing illegal about this. After much campaigning to get the law changed to make it illegal, she received a letter from the Ministry of Justice explaining actually it was already illegal and eventually a case was brought and the rapist was sentenced, and placed on the sex offender list for 5 years.

In May, Killick stood as an independent candidate in the Hartlepool byelection, revealing that registered sex offenders can run for public office. There is now a petition to change the law to prevent this.

Incredibly, there are some positive steps including one from my local police force (Avon & Somerset) which has a pilot project that is shifting the focus of credibility from the victim to the perpetrator. About bl..dy time, and I really hope it produces good results. As the piece points out, while most men are not rapists, rapists are usually multiple rapists. One study found "some suspects were linked to up to 19 sex crimes (and 60.5% were linked to other types of crime)" while a US study found that unprosecuted rapists committed an average of 5.8 rapes. So prosecuting and convicting these people not only provides justice for their victims but prevents there being new victims.
Why is it so incredibly hard to get police to take an interest? It’s not like rape has only just become bad. I guess this is a big part of what is meant by rape culture.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:10 am

Not just take an interest, but be sympathetic as well. Like you, I just don't understand why rape has become something to be such shits about.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am

I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
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Grumble
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 am

JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
Four decades. Not wishing to be trivial about it, it makes it even worse.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am

The horrifying thing to me is that these stories are not extraordinary - they're common. The reason you don't hear much about them is that most most women decide not to say anything because it doesn't do anything except make their lives even harder. Police have always been dismissive of crimes against women. Why do you think reporting rates of rape and sexual assault are so low? It's not because we don't think a crime occurred. It's because we know that even if the police take us seriously (which isn't guaranteed) the system is set up to treat us like liars who are just making things up and who, should we not want our sexual histories paraded in front of complete strangers, are seen as hiding something.

I remember reading this piece by Patrick Stewart way back in 2009 about the domestic violence he saw as a child. This passage has stuck with me ever since,
The situation was barely tolerable: I witnessed terrible things, which I knew were wrong, but there was nowhere to go for help. Worse, there were those who condoned the abuse. I heard police or ambulancemen, standing in our house, say, "She must have provoked him," or, "Mrs Stewart, it takes two to make a fight." They had no idea. The truth is my mother did nothing to deserve the violence she endured. She did not provoke my father, and even if she had, violence is an unacceptable way of dealing with conflict. Violence is a choice a man makes and he alone is responsible for it.
This attitude has not changed. And even if you're lucky enough to encounter an official who doesn't hold these attitudes, the system is still based on them.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Pianissimo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:42 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
I’d never seen that before, completely horrifying.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by tom p » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:23 pm

Pianissimo wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:42 pm
JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
I’d never seen that before, completely horrifying.
Jesus. If that was in a drama you'd say that it was unbelievable, that the characters were caricatures.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:04 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:37 pm
More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.
There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld...
More up to date figures from the Metropolitan Police,
About 160 Metropolitan Police officers have been accused of sexual misconduct in the past two years, an investigation has found.

Freedom of Information requests carried out by My London show the police officers had been accused of sexual assault, sexual harassment and other forms of sexual misconduct in 2019 and 2020.

An additional 33 officers had allegations levied against them in the first five months of 2021...

The fresh data reveals the amount of conduct issues voiced by staff or line managers linked to the actions of on- and off-duty officers – with the vast majority of those accused being male police officers...

The data also reveals 104 complaints were made by non-police officers in the general population about the conduct of Met officers in 2019 and 2020.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by bmforre » Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:14 pm

Haaretz reports
Succesful appeal by waitress against forced "intimacy".
Forcing a bar waitress to have a customer drink alcohol off her belly without her consent is an indecent act as defined by Israel’s sexual harassment statute, the National Labor Court has ruled.

The precedent-setting decision followed an appeal by a waitress at the Mike’s Place seafront bar in Tel Aviv whom the court ruled was forced by her shift manager to engage in the practice known as a body shot.
She had initially lost her case but won with her appeal:
The panel of three National Labor Court judges and two public representatives headed by the court’s president, Varda Wirth Livne, deemed the practice inherently humiliating to women, “particularly when carried out at a place of work, which should be a protected and safe location for the female employees there.”

The waitress, a new immigrant who has only been identified by her first initial, P., filed the appeal after the labor court for the Tel Aviv district ruled against her in the case.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by lpm » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am

Another Incel mass murder, this time in England. Not clear how the murderer managed to get a gun given our strict controls. Of course it's not treated as a terror attack because it's a political act of hatred by a white man against women, rather than a political act of hatred by a brown men against people of another religion.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:10 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am
Another Incel mass murder, this time in England. Not clear how the murderer managed to get a gun given our strict controls. Of course it's not treated as a terror attack because it's a political act of hatred by a white man against women, rather than a political act of hatred by a brown men against people of another religion.
He was a licensed firearms holder and also shot two men.

There's also this today
Daniela Espirito Santo, 23, from Grantham, reported partner Julio Jesus for attacking her while on bail for another assault the same day.

He was charged with manslaughter but that was dropped over lack of evidence linking the attack and her death. He was instead charged with assault and jailed for 10 months.

A report by the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), which was leaked to the New York Times, detailed seven calls from Ms Espirito Santo about her partner between May 2019 and April 2020.

During her final 999 call on 8 April 2020, she reported being attacked hours after Jesus was released on police bail for an assault earlier that day in which he pinned her down and pushed his arm against her throat.

The 999 call handler deemed the call non-urgent as Jesus had left the home and told Ms Espirito Santo to ring back on the non-emergency 101 number.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-l ... e-58187438

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:32 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:10 pm
He... shot two men.
Elliot Rodgers killed four men (George Chen, Chengyuan "James" Hong, Weihan "David" Wang and Christopher Ross Michaels-Martinez) and two women (Katherine Breann Cooper and Veronika Elizabeth Weiss).

Alek Minassian killed two men (Munir Abdo Habib Najjar and Chul Min (Eddie) Kang) and eight women (Beutis Renuka Amarasingha, Andrea Bradden, Geraldine Brady, Sohe Chung, Anne Marie D'Amico, Mary Elizabeth (Betty) Forsyth, Ji Hun Kim and Dorothy Sewell)

Incels hate "normie" men almost as much as they hate women.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:32 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:10 pm
He... shot two men.
Elliot Rodgers killed four men (George Chen, Chengyuan "James" Hong, Weihan "David" Wang and Christopher Ross Michaels-Martinez) and two women (Katherine Breann Cooper and Veronika Elizabeth Weiss).

Alek Minassian killed two men (Munir Abdo Habib Najjar and Chul Min (Eddie) Kang) and eight women (Beutis Renuka Amarasingha, Andrea Bradden, Geraldine Brady, Sohe Chung, Anne Marie D'Amico, Mary Elizabeth (Betty) Forsyth, Ji Hun Kim and Dorothy Sewell)

Incels hate "normie" men almost as much as they hate women.
Yes, I agree, they hate Chads as well as Stacys.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by lpm » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:13 pm

And typically suicidal terrorists have a primary goal, then head out and shoot anyone else they encounter. For example the Halle anti-semitic terrorist failed to kill anyone at the synagogue he attacked but went on to murder a passerby and someone in a kebab shop. This British murderer was clearly influenced by the American storyline for mass shootings.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:21 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:13 pm
And typically suicidal terrorists have a primary goal, then head out and shoot anyone else they encounter. For example the Halle anti-semitic terrorist failed to kill anyone at the synagogue he attacked but went on to murder a passerby and someone in a kebab shop. This British murderer was clearly influenced by the American storyline for mass shootings.
Yes, it looks like his primary target was his first victim, who was a woman he knew. It looks like he then followed the familiar US shooter narrative of shooting several others before killing himself.

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