Getting Brexit done

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shpalman
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Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:01 pm

From Facebook...
Stolen from a friend:

“So congratulations if you wanted Boris Johnson as pm.

Please don’t celebrate too much though as you have work to do. You see us remoaners have spent three and a half years now telling you brexit was wrong but we’ve finally and completely lost. There’s pretty much nothing we can do now to stop it.

So, it’s over to you leavers. You need to get yourselves into gear to make it work. We need to see some of these benefits you’ve been able to see yet unable to properly articulate since 2016.

I hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken the liberty of writing a “to do” list for you.

1. Get brexit done please. When we say done we mean as promised so we’ll be looking for trade deals with the EU, Japan, Australia and Canada etc. In fact there’s about 40 deals covering 70 countries that need to be done please. Also with the US that doesn’t involve the nhs or chlorine. We want what you promised us. That was that we’d be no worse off than when we were an EU member. You need to crack on as this was promised by the end of Jan. You have seven weeks.

2. The NHS. We want the cash that was promised please. £350 million per week is about 72000 nurses so please get recruiting. This is important.

3. Scotland. Ok so these guys were promised they would remain in the EU if they remained in the UK. They’re pretty pissed. In fact they’ve voted almost exclusively for the SNP so they might want to leave. Equally you said the UK wouldn’t split so you’ll need to both grant Scotland its independence and keep it as part of the United Kingdom. Good luck squaring this circle. NB This is urgent.

4. Northern Ireland. Oooookay then. You’ve really buggered this one up. There’s a chance they could look to reunify with the republic now because they didn’t want to brexit. Regardless you’ve caused instability there where we and they can least afford it. NB This is also urgent.

5. The economy. Johnson keeps talking about unleashing the potential of the country. We need to see this soon if possible. We don’t want to see the downturn that “project fear” predicted. We don’t want to be poorer. We don’t want to lose out.

6. You’ll also need to “bring the country back together”. This might be tricky as a lot of people seem to be really really angry with each other.

That’s as far as I’ve got. Should keep you busy. So go and get all british about things. Roll up your sleeves, pull your socks up, dig deep and deliver what you promised.

And remember if you fail to deliver any of this it’s on you, brexit and Tory voters. You wanted this so badly and now you have it. We honestly hope we’re wrong and that you can make a success of this but if you can’t then we will forever tell you that we told you so.”
molto tricky

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discovolante
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by discovolante » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:16 pm

What do you make of this?

https://www.ft.com/content/db8d1e24-1d9 ... 63de1d73f4
... the negotiations may not be quite as protracted as some critics predict. There is a strong will in both Brussels and London to get a deal done as quickly as possible — since both sides are heartily sick of Brexit.

...

The record of the first phase of negotiations shows that, at the last minute, both the EU and the UK tend to shy away from head-on collisions. And Mr Johnson has managed to establish a decent rapport with key EU leaders. Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, has said of him: “He’s a leader with a real strategic vision. Those who didn’t take him seriously were wrong.”

The British economy has a few sectors that are genuinely world-leading and the Johnson government will have to go all-out to protect and promote them in trade talks. They include finance, legal services, pharmaceuticals, education, tourism and creative industries. A swift zero-tariffs trade deal with the EU will not be worth having, if it is bought at the expense of the services sector.

...

Prolonged negotiations would create uncertainty, which could take a toll on growth. But the British economy has proved surprisingly robust in the face of three-and-a-half years of uncertainty since the Brexit vote — with the UK growing at roughly the same pace as France and Germany.

The long-term aim must be to move beyond trade negotiations and to create a new political relationship with Britain’s closest neighbours.

The other key European powers, in particular France and Germany, understand the value of the UK as a military, intelligence, diplomatic and trading partner — particularly in an era of American unilateralism and growing Chinese power. Mr Macron has spoken of setting up “a European Security Council with the UK on board.” The details are sketchy, but the idea is definitely worth building on.

...

If Mr Johnson is looking for an “oven-ready” trade deal — to use one of his favourite phrases — the UK should look at joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership — the third largest trade bloc in the world, spanning countries as diverse as Australia, Japan and Mexico. The obvious objection is that the UK is not a Pacific country. But Shinzo Abe, Japan’s prime minister, has said that he would welcome a UK application to join.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:29 pm

On the speed of negotiations. As we saw in October they could be fast so long as Johnson gives the EU everything it asks for.

They’ll slow down as soon as Johnson decides to actually negotiate.

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lpm
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:49 pm

Has PeteB reached our forum?
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

Lew Dolby
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Lew Dolby » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:05 pm

We're world-leaders in education. Never knew that. Must be because we can teach kids to read even with their schools literally falling down around them.
If you bring you kids up to think for themselves, you can't complain when they do

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:32 pm

The FT article is just reheated cakeism and we all know how well that's turned out.

The EU will roll over and give Britain everything it wants because "Britain", they won't ask for anything too onerous in return. Despite all evidence to the contrary our relationship with the EU is actually still harmonious and the EUs leaders will be willing to do Mr Brexit himself lots of favours in order to ensure Brexit is a glowing success even if that spells the end of the EU itself presumably at the behest of the makers of German automatics devices and fizzy Italian wines.

Meanwhile the Leave supporters with their characteristic patience and tolerance of nuance will be quite happy to sit quietly by as Brexit conspicuously continues to remain undone into its 4th year and beyond. Similarly I'm sure the good citizens of Grimsby will greet the final extinction of the UK fishing industry with stoic equanimity, I mean its not as if that was central tennet of the Leave campaign or Boris' election or anything.
People who use Godwin's Law are worse than Hitler.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:29 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:05 pm
We're world-leaders in education. Never knew that. Must be because we can teach kids to read even with their schools literally falling down around them.
In terms of attracting foreign students the UK is a world leader. Both in higher education and in private primary and secondary schools. We’ll have to see how higher education is affected by Brexit.

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:46 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:29 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:05 pm
We're world-leaders in education. Never knew that. Must be because we can teach kids to read even with their schools literally falling down around them.
In terms of attracting foreign students the UK is a world leader. Both in higher education and in private primary and secondary schools. We’ll have to see how higher education is affected by Brexit.
Well the conservatives have pledged to drastically reduce immigration. Allowing foreign students in large number is just a stalking horse for immigration. How many of them stay? Look for much tighter rules on foreign students.

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GeenDienst
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by GeenDienst » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:53 pm

All Johnson has to do is not count students as immigrants. Problem solved.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:22 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:53 pm
All Johnson has to do is not count students as immigrants. Problem solved.
Are foreign students taking places that should belong to british students? I do not know.

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JQH
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:24 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:22 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:53 pm
All Johnson has to do is not count students as immigrants. Problem solved.
Are foreign students taking places that should belong to british students? I do not know.
No they f.cking ain't.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:29 pm

JQH wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:24 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:22 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:53 pm
All Johnson has to do is not count students as immigrants. Problem solved.
Are foreign students taking places that should belong to british students? I do not know.
No they f.cking ain't.
Its not free for them, I hope.

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:30 pm

Im just thinking that if Johnson is in favour it must be bad for us.

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Stephanie
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Stephanie » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:36 pm

What are you even going on about Herainestold?
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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JQH
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:29 pm
JQH wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:24 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:22 pm


Are foreign students taking places that should belong to british students? I do not know.
No they f.cking ain't.
Its not free for them, I hope.
As I'm sure you know, it is not. It's not free for British students.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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JQH
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:40 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:36 pm
What are you even going on about Herainestold?
I suspect we're heading for some racist punchline.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:46 pm

JQH wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:40 pm
Stephanie wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:36 pm
What are you even going on about Herainestold?
I suspect we're heading for some racist punchline.
The great British people voted for racism, so thats the punchline I guess.

I dont really know what to think about foreign students. Generally I would be in favour, but I think there is more to it than meets the eye.
Specifically if the Conservatives want more there must be some ulterior motive, probably that Boris's cronies profit mightily at the expense of the
average person. I dont really know.

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Stephanie
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Stephanie » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:50 pm

Well done on a completely stupid post
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:52 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:50 pm
Well done on a completely stupid post
Its been a stupid election so it fits.

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shpalman
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:33 pm

EU looks at extending Brexit transition period beyond 2020
the UK is expected to leave the EU on 31 January... At the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020, the UK is set to exit the EU’s customs union and single market and enter newly negotiated arrangements...
... but tl;dr that isn't expected to be long enough to actually negotiate those arrangements.
molto tricky

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jdc
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jdc » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:46 pm
JQH wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:40 pm
Stephanie wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:36 pm
What are you even going on about Herainestold?
I suspect we're heading for some racist punchline.
The great British people voted for racism, so thats the punchline I guess.

I dont really know what to think about foreign students. Generally I would be in favour, but I think there is more to it than meets the eye.
Specifically if the Conservatives want more there must be some ulterior motive, probably that Boris's cronies profit mightily at the expense of the
average person. I dont really know.
If foreign students aren't taking places that should go to British students, aren't receiving free tuition so aren't costing the taxpayer money, and are paying their fees to universities rather than Boris and his friends... then how are Boris's cronies profiting mightily at the expense of the average person by allowing universities to take foreign students? I'm sure Boris's cronies thoroughly enjoy profiting mightily at the expense of the average person (I know I do), I'm just not seeing how they're managing to do so in this instance.

btw, if you're generally in favour of foreign students, it's a bit odd that you've managed to raise what looks like a series of spurious complaints about them.

Trinucleus
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Trinucleus » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:50 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:33 pm
EU looks at extending Brexit transition period beyond 2020
the UK is expected to leave the EU on 31 January... At the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020, the UK is set to exit the EU’s customs union and single market and enter newly negotiated arrangements...
... but tl;dr that isn't expected to be long enough to actually negotiate those arrangements.
Not a problem. Boris can extend it. He's not relying on anyone else now. He said he wouldn't but so what?

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:56 pm

So anyway, this Brexit thing: I was struck by a parallel when reading yet another autopsy piece on Labour's catastrophe. Activists on the doorstep being told flat out that Corbyn was poison but soldiering on so Momentum wouldn't blame them for not trying, MPs whose coup attempt failed concluded there was nothing left to do but to let Corbynism try and fail on its own.

That's where we are, I thought. Arguing for a people's vote* may have had its appeal within its bubble but caused furious resentment outside it for the perfectly straightforward reason that we voted already and Remain lost. Now Remain is dead. There is nothing to do now but let Brexit try and fail on its own.


*I hope it won't seem like trying to be wise after the event; I did try my puny best to argue that a 2nd referendum could only be on a new question (i.e. "Here's the deal we can actually get; is *this* what you want?") and not a re-run of the question already asked and answered. It was possibly hopeless even to try but it was f.cking stupid IMO to have a people's vote campaign which didn't hammer home the line that it wasn't going to ask the same question again.

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:01 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:50 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:33 pm
EU looks at extending Brexit transition period beyond 2020
the UK is expected to leave the EU on 31 January... At the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020, the UK is set to exit the EU’s customs union and single market and enter newly negotiated arrangements...
... but tl;dr that isn't expected to be long enough to actually negotiate those arrangements.
Not a problem. Boris can extend it. He's not relying on anyone else now. He said he wouldn't but so what?
He can. He can spin it any way he likes: tell the faithful that he has to demolish the wall brick by brick and not just blow it up as that would hurt the UK too. Any old hogwash. He doesn't care about getting it done, he just needs to look busy and to be heading in the right direction.

Herainestold
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:08 pm

jdc wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm


If foreign students aren't taking places that should go to British students, aren't receiving free tuition so aren't costing the taxpayer money, and are paying their fees to universities rather than Boris and his friends... then how are Boris's cronies profiting mightily at the expense of the average person by allowing universities to take foreign students? I'm sure Boris's cronies thoroughly enjoy profiting mightily at the expense of the average person (I know I do), I'm just not seeing how they're managing to do so in this instance.

btw, if you're generally in favour of foreign students, it's a bit odd that you've managed to raise what looks like a series of spurious complaints about them.
I don't know if I am in favour of foreign students or not. Emotionally I feel that they are a good idea, but if Boris Johnson is in favour, then there must be something else going on.

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