Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
sTeamTraen
After Pie
Posts: 2550
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:24 pm
Location: Palma de Mallorca, Spain

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by sTeamTraen » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:26 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:24 pm
Spain's official figure for doses of AZ delivered fell again this week. It's now down to 9,979,000, which is 408,800 below the number in mid-July. I presume they are working out who still needs a second AZ dose more accurately, and sending the rest elsewhere.
Spain's official deliveries of the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine peaked at 2,648,335 on 9 August. Today they stand at 2,400,410.

Maybe the thread title should be changed to "Is it all over for adenovirus vector vaccines?"
Something something hammer something something nail

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8241
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:38 pm

Seems like Italy gave away (or otherwise got rid of) about half a million Astra Zeneca doses today.

Maybe to support countries less fortunate than ourselves e.g. the UK and its drive to give third doses to anyone vulnerable or in a poor state of health i.e. the entire over-50s population.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8241
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:59 am

it would be “completely unfair” to suggest the AstraZeneca vaccine was not as good as once thought.
Sajid Javid wrote:AstraZeneca has played a phenomenal role in protecting our country.

The difference now is... this variant, and different types of vaccines will react in different ways. But whether it’s AstraZeneca you had for your first two doses or its Pfizer or Moderna, you still need a booster shot to be protected against this new variant.
But not a booster of AstraZeneca of course, because it's a bit sh.t.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:48 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:59 am
it would be “completely unfair” to suggest the AstraZeneca vaccine was not as good as once thought.
Sajid Javid wrote:AstraZeneca has played a phenomenal role in protecting our country.

The difference now is... this variant, and different types of vaccines will react in different ways. But whether it’s AstraZeneca you had for your first two doses or its Pfizer or Moderna, you still need a booster shot to be protected against this new variant.
But not a booster of AstraZeneca of course, because it's a bit sh.t.
Not as sh.t as Janssen.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
bob sterman
Dorkwood
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm
Location: Location Location

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by bob sterman » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:33 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:48 pm
shpalman wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:59 am
it would be “completely unfair” to suggest the AstraZeneca vaccine was not as good as once thought.
Sajid Javid wrote:AstraZeneca has played a phenomenal role in protecting our country.

The difference now is... this variant, and different types of vaccines will react in different ways. But whether it’s AstraZeneca you had for your first two doses or its Pfizer or Moderna, you still need a booster shot to be protected against this new variant.
But not a booster of AstraZeneca of course, because it's a bit sh.t.
Not as sh.t as Janssen.
And both still better than GSK!

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm

A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.

All moot w.r.t. Omicron.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

WFJ
Catbabel
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by WFJ » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm
A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature Scientific Reports paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.

All moot w.r.t. Omicron.
FIFY—not that that necessarily means there's anything wrong with it.

User avatar
bob sterman
Dorkwood
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm
Location: Location Location

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by bob sterman » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:43 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm
A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.
Although worth noting the metric...

"P-score represents the probability of each intervention is being better than all competing interventions, derived from network point estimates and standard errors.

So the scale is 0 (worst) to 1 (best). And a vaccine scoring close to 0 doesn't have to be sh*t - just not quite as good as the others.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:07 am

WFJ wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm
A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature Scientific Reports paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.

All moot w.r.t. Omicron.
FIFY—not that that necessarily means there's anything wrong with it.
Point taken.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

Millennie Al
After Pie
Posts: 1621
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:02 am

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:46 am

bob sterman wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:43 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm
A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.
Although worth noting the metric...

"P-score represents the probability of each intervention is being better than all competing interventions, derived from network point estimates and standard errors.
Also worth noting that the first column with all the figures is for prevention of symptomatic disease. We don't care about that. There are two things we care about:
  1. Prevention of any disease
  2. Prevention of serious (needs hospitalisation) disease

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:55 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:46 am
bob sterman wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:43 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:19 pm
A table that ranks covid vaccines, from a nature paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... z/tables/2

As you might expect Pfizer at the top, Janssen and AZ at the bottom.
Although worth noting the metric...

"P-score represents the probability of each intervention is being better than all competing interventions, derived from network point estimates and standard errors.
Also worth noting that the first column with all the figures is for prevention of symptomatic disease. We don't care about that. There are two things we care about:
  1. Prevention of any disease
  2. Prevention of serious (needs hospitalisation) disease
If we say prevention of any disease, that includes asymptomatic, and vaccine efficacy against any disease, after three or four months, is very low.
What we should really be caring about, serious outcomes. Hospitalization, critical care beds and death.

I posted that chart because I was curious how vaccines were ranked. It is all moot now, Omicron is among us.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

Post Reply