I wasn't posting it as evidence of EU trucker shortages, I was posting it as evidence of global supply chain issues. I posted other links as evidence of EU trucker shortages (as did others). You are confused.Chris Preston wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:08 pmLike posting a photo of the toilet paper shelves being empty in a Sydney supermarket as evidence of EU trucker shortages.
Brexit Consequences
Re: Brexit Consequences
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Re: Brexit Consequences
Oh yes, you morphed the argument into one of trucker shortages in Australia due to lockdowns. Completely failing to discover that truckers in Australia are exempt from lockdowns while working.sheldrake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:11 pmI wasn't posting it as evidence of EU trucker shortages, I was posting it as evidence of global supply chain issues. I posted other links as evidence of EU trucker shortages (as did others)Chris Preston wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:08 pmLike posting a photo of the toilet paper shelves being empty in a Sydney supermarket as evidence of EU trucker shortages.
I am bored and pointing out the stupidity of arguments of anti-vaxxers has its value.
Here grows much rhubarb.
Re: Brexit Consequences
I said ‘supply shortages’ which can be caused by many points in the chain, not just drivers.Chris Preston wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:19 pmOh yes, you morphed the argument into one of trucker shortages in Australia due to lockdowns. Completely failing to discover that truckers in Australia are exempt from lockdowns while working.sheldrake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:11 pmI wasn't posting it as evidence of EU trucker shortages, I was posting it as evidence of global supply chain issues. I posted other links as evidence of EU trucker shortages (as did others)Chris Preston wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:08 pm
Like posting a photo of the toilet paper shelves being empty in a Sydney supermarket as evidence of EU trucker shortages.
I am bored and pointing out the stupidity of arguments of anti-vaxxers has its value.
I’m putting you on ignore now because you dont really want to have a conversation, but rant at me over mischaracterisations of what I wrote
Re: Brexit Consequences
Lol!
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: Brexit Consequences
Definitely seeing more gaps on shelves than usual but there don't seem to be shortages of essentials.sheldrake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:20 pmIt seems like we're stuck with anecdotes in that case. It's like this in my area https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/wes ... d-21665383 (I don't live in yorkshire, further south in the east midlands)
How is it where you live ?
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- After Pie
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Re: Brexit Consequences
Well, you're making a big mistake there. Even if someone is being rude or abusive, they may make valid points and knowledge is power, so you're better off reading the material anyway. You may find a good point, in which case you have learned something, even if you only find a erroeous arguments, that is also useful as it provides a way to understand why you differ, which is one of the things which helps you convince someone else.
That article contains nothing to support your point that the UK benefited from Brexit. While Juncker criticised the EU strategy, that was not saying that each country should have acted independently and the EU is a hindrance - it meant that the EU strategy was wrong but the correct strategy was something else that should still have been done as the EU.Even Junker agrees with me on this one https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... accine-war
A much more relevant article, which goes into more detail about what he said, is https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... at-with-uk
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Re: Brexit Consequences
Yes. It shows just how deluded they are, since the UK was never part of the Schengen Area, so was always able to vary its rules however it liked. This is typical pro-Brexit misinformation.
Re: Brexit Consequences
I've had enough experience of Tom to know that not agreeing with a narrow spectrum of opinions on any topic just prompts lots of extreme ranting.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:40 am
Well, you're making a big mistake there. Even if someone is being rude or abusive, they may make valid points and knowledge is power, so you're better off reading the material anyway. You may find a good point, in which case you have learned something, even if you only find a erroeous arguments, that is also useful as it provides a way to understand why you differ, which is one of the things which helps you convince someone else.
I only used the quote to demonstrate he acknowledged the EU strategy was wrong. I think this focus on what 'could have been' within the EU is misguided, focus on what actually happened.Even Junker agrees with me on this one https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... accine-war
That article contains nothing to support your point that the UK benefited from Brexit. While Juncker criticised the EU strategy, that was not saying that each country should have acted independently and the EU is a hindrance - it meant that the EU strategy was wrong but the correct strategy was something else that should still have been done as the EU.
Re: Brexit Consequences
Looking at what Schapps claimed, he says it is because brexit allowed him to change driving test rules for truckers. I was wary of directly quoting anything Schapps said as fact though.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:43 amYes. It shows just how deluded they are, since the UK was never part of the Schengen Area, so was always able to vary its rules however it liked. This is typical pro-Brexit misinformation.
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Re: Brexit Consequences
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Brexit Consequences
aka "even I accept this is probably drivel but I'm not going to stop now".sheldrake wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:36 amLooking at what Schapps claimed, he says it is because brexit allowed him to change driving test rules for truckers. I was wary of directly quoting anything Schapps said as fact though.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:43 amYes. It shows just how deluded they are, since the UK was never part of the Schengen Area, so was always able to vary its rules however it liked. This is typical pro-Brexit misinformation.
Which EU HGV driving test rules are we now free from, that we have now changed? Do we now get to teach our lorry drivers to drive on the left? Perhaps braking distances are in imperial measures? Have we changed the air lines connecting the trailer to red, white and blue?
Re: Brexit Consequences
It's sad to see Shelly knows Johnson & Co are shameless liars. But trots out their lies nonetheless.
He knows Johnson lied to him with the claim Brexit allowed faster vaccine approval. But he doesn't get pissed at Johnson. He doesn't begin to suspect Johnson's other claims. He carries on, preferring to accept lies than change "sides".
A healthy society is one where liars get shamed. The fundamental consequence of Brexit is that truth is rejected instead of the liars. It leaves Sheldrake in a pretty grim position: join in with the lying or lose face to his "enemies".
He knows Johnson lied to him with the claim Brexit allowed faster vaccine approval. But he doesn't get pissed at Johnson. He doesn't begin to suspect Johnson's other claims. He carries on, preferring to accept lies than change "sides".
A healthy society is one where liars get shamed. The fundamental consequence of Brexit is that truth is rejected instead of the liars. It leaves Sheldrake in a pretty grim position: join in with the lying or lose face to his "enemies".
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
Re: Brexit Consequences
I think you went in a bit hard there. I am using couched language like ‘schapps claims’ precisely because I know, and acknowledge there is a very good chance he is lying. I am well aware of our cabinet’s shortcomings and I wont be voting Tory next time.plodder wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:58 amaka "even I accept this is probably drivel but I'm not going to stop now".sheldrake wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:36 amLooking at what Schapps claimed, he says it is because brexit allowed him to change driving test rules for truckers. I was wary of directly quoting anything Schapps said as fact though.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:43 am
Yes. It shows just how deluded they are, since the UK was never part of the Schengen Area, so was always able to vary its rules however it liked. This is typical pro-Brexit misinformation.
Which EU HGV driving test rules are we now free from, that we have now changed? Do we now get to teach our lorry drivers to drive on the left? Perhaps braking distances are in imperial measures? Have we changed the air lines connecting the trailer to red, white and blue?
My argument is not that brexit has made this better, merely that brexit is not a significant cause.
I honestly think people who think leaving the EU had no impact on our vaccine programme are deluding themselves though.
Re: Brexit Consequences
I am worried this is a cry for help. If it is, please, go and talk to your GP and show them how you habitually behave online, and get someone to talk to about whether this might be related to some deep-rooted issues about how you relate to people in the real world. A few months of chatting to a professional and you'll be far less in need of this ridiculous attention seeking.
Re: Brexit Consequences
I am completely sane. Super sane.plodder wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:04 amI am worried this is a cry for help. If it is, please, go and talk to your GP and show them how you habitually behave online, and get someone to talk to about whether this might be related to some deep-rooted issues about how you relate to people in the real world. A few months of chatting to a professional and you'll be far less in need of this ridiculous attention seeking.
I dont recall trying to rebut one of your points by telling you that needed professional help. Not even when you were rude to me. Have a think about that.
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Re: Brexit Consequences
There is an EU driving license directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32006L0126
This was very useful as it meant that people could use their national license to drive all round the EU.
If you look at Annexes II and III you can see the driving test requirements. They look sensible to me and are pretty general so there is room for national interpretation. If Britain is to make the HGV license much easier to pass that might well have an effect upon road safety.
This was very useful as it meant that people could use their national license to drive all round the EU.
If you look at Annexes II and III you can see the driving test requirements. They look sensible to me and are pretty general so there is room for national interpretation. If Britain is to make the HGV license much easier to pass that might well have an effect upon road safety.
Re: Brexit Consequences
You are deacribing a looking-glass reality where Cameron’s, the BOE’s and the Treasury’s grim predictions came true. They didnt. Not even close. You are floundering around in this stupid zeitgeist of ‘we could totally have still rolled out vaccines faster than the rest of the EU without leaving’ whilst unable to explain why none of them did what you claim was so easily done. Absurd.lpm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:19 amIt's sad to see Shelly knows Johnson & Co are shameless liars. But trots out their lies nonetheless.
He knows Johnson lied to him with the claim Brexit allowed faster vaccine approval. But he doesn't get pissed at Johnson. He doesn't begin to suspect Johnson's other claims. He carries on, preferring to accept lies than change "sides".
A healthy society is one where liars get shamed. The fundamental consequence of Brexit is that truth is rejected instead of the liars. It leaves Sheldrake in a pretty grim position: join in with the lying or lose face to his "enemies".
Read this https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... n.amp.html
You were the one lied to.
Last edited by sheldrake on Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brexit Consequences
I’m not sure if the plan is to make it much easier to pass or whether its about shortening some delay in the process that isnt about a practical skill test.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:11 amThere is an EU driving license directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32006L0126
This was very useful as it meant that people could use their national license to drive all round the EU.
If you look at Annexes II and III you can see the driving test requirements. They look sensible to me and are pretty general so there is room for national interpretation. If Britain is to make the HGV license much easier to pass that might well have an effect upon road safety.
Re: Brexit Consequences
You know Johnson stood in front of the £350 million bus and lied to you.
I know you're only pretending to believe Johnson isn't a liar, for troll/contrarian purposes. But that's worse than being a Boris Believer, because you are consciously attacking truth itself. It's shameful.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
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Re: Brexit Consequences
Process for taking tests is decided nationally as far as I can tell. The directive didn’t appear to get into that level of detail.sheldrake wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 amI’m not sure if the plan is to make it much easier to pass or whether its about shortening some delay in the process that isnt about a practical skill test.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:11 amThere is an EU driving license directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32006L0126
This was very useful as it meant that people could use their national license to drive all round the EU.
If you look at Annexes II and III you can see the driving test requirements. They look sensible to me and are pretty general so there is room for national interpretation. If Britain is to make the HGV license much easier to pass that might well have an effect upon road safety.
Re: Brexit Consequences
This is silly hyperbole. The 350 million claim was actually pretty accurate, after our rebate went. This is a silly crutch that people who cannot accept the referendum result still bang on about. Let it go. https://order-order.com/2019/07/04/judg ... ss-figure/lpm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:34 amYou know Johnson stood in front of the £350 million bus and lied to you.
I know you're only pretending to believe Johnson isn't a liar, for troll/contrarian purposes. But that's worse than being a Boris Believer, because you are consciously attacking truth itself. It's shameful.
I am well aware what sort of bullshitter Johnson is, and wont be voting Tory next time. I do not yet see unambiguously good alternatives in our political system. I will favour people with the guts to oppose vaccine passports and keep us out of colonial wars
Re: Brexit Consequences
This is so humiliating for you.
You know Johnson is a liar but you keep repeating his lies anyway.
The words associated with Sheldrake become "gullible" and "moron", sometimes taking it in turns with "useful idiot".
You know Johnson is a liar but you keep repeating his lies anyway.
The words associated with Sheldrake become "gullible" and "moron", sometimes taking it in turns with "useful idiot".
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
Re: Brexit Consequences
When you’re reduced to these kind of splenetics after literally being shown a court ruling supporting what I just said you know you have left the camp of reason. Be well, LPM
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Re: Brexit Consequences
Well it's great that you're giving that money to the NHS now so as to avoid having to raise National Insurance or anything.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Brexit Consequences
The 350 million claim was a lie, and was called out by the UK Statistics Authority, Full Fact, More or Less, and pretty much anyone else who you might want to listen to if you were interested in accurate statistics.
That said, it was a clever lie (or perhaps an accidentally useful one, depending on whether you tend towards conspiracy or cockup in your interpretation of events). The immediate, and understandable, reaction to the lie from those on our side of the Brexit debate was to point out vociferously that it was a lie, and to explain why it was a lie, with reference to our rebate from the EU, among other factors. The problem is that the result is an argument about precisely how much we contribute to the EU budget. That's an argument the Leave camp were probably happy about because, even if they lost it, they would still, in a sense, have won. We were one of the richer nations in the EU so we we were going to be net contributors to its budget to some extent, however you analysed it. Someone who found the 350 million argument persuasive was unlikely to change their mind even if they were forced to downgrade their estimate of our contribution to 250 million, or some other figure. And of course the more time people spent arguing over 350 million vs 250 million vs whatever, the less attention was devoted to issues that could have done more damage to the Leave camp.
Obviously those on our side of the argument saw the lie in a wider context. We might have hoped that Johnson's brazen persistence with it would make everyone realise that he couldn't be trusted on other matters. But anyone who has followed an argument about statistics on the internet, or in the media, will realise that they just don't work like that. If someone lies about statistics, people's attitude to the lie depends on how the statistic fits into their world view. From our side of the fence, Johnson's lie is yet further proof of his untrustworthiness. From a Leaver point of view, Remainer pushback over rebates and other economic issues is probably just an attempt to shut down debate on an important issue by spurious quibbling about methodology.
There's no point crying over spilt milk, but would have been sensible to deal with the lie with a resigned shrug, and concentrate on the sort of strategies that worked in previous referendums for the side that wanted to keep the status quo (in particular strategies that leverage the fact that the side that wants to change it doesn't usually agree on exactly how it should be changed).
That said, it was a clever lie (or perhaps an accidentally useful one, depending on whether you tend towards conspiracy or cockup in your interpretation of events). The immediate, and understandable, reaction to the lie from those on our side of the Brexit debate was to point out vociferously that it was a lie, and to explain why it was a lie, with reference to our rebate from the EU, among other factors. The problem is that the result is an argument about precisely how much we contribute to the EU budget. That's an argument the Leave camp were probably happy about because, even if they lost it, they would still, in a sense, have won. We were one of the richer nations in the EU so we we were going to be net contributors to its budget to some extent, however you analysed it. Someone who found the 350 million argument persuasive was unlikely to change their mind even if they were forced to downgrade their estimate of our contribution to 250 million, or some other figure. And of course the more time people spent arguing over 350 million vs 250 million vs whatever, the less attention was devoted to issues that could have done more damage to the Leave camp.
Obviously those on our side of the argument saw the lie in a wider context. We might have hoped that Johnson's brazen persistence with it would make everyone realise that he couldn't be trusted on other matters. But anyone who has followed an argument about statistics on the internet, or in the media, will realise that they just don't work like that. If someone lies about statistics, people's attitude to the lie depends on how the statistic fits into their world view. From our side of the fence, Johnson's lie is yet further proof of his untrustworthiness. From a Leaver point of view, Remainer pushback over rebates and other economic issues is probably just an attempt to shut down debate on an important issue by spurious quibbling about methodology.
There's no point crying over spilt milk, but would have been sensible to deal with the lie with a resigned shrug, and concentrate on the sort of strategies that worked in previous referendums for the side that wanted to keep the status quo (in particular strategies that leverage the fact that the side that wants to change it doesn't usually agree on exactly how it should be changed).
Last edited by snoozeofreason on Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?