What are you on about? What do you think is going on?Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:08 pmI don't know if I am in favour of foreign students or not. Emotionally I feel that they are a good idea, but if Boris Johnson is in favour, then there must be something else going on.jdc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm
If foreign students aren't taking places that should go to British students, aren't receiving free tuition so aren't costing the taxpayer money, and are paying their fees to universities rather than Boris and his friends... then how are Boris's cronies profiting mightily at the expense of the average person by allowing universities to take foreign students? I'm sure Boris's cronies thoroughly enjoy profiting mightily at the expense of the average person (I know I do), I'm just not seeing how they're managing to do so in this instance.
btw, if you're generally in favour of foreign students, it's a bit odd that you've managed to raise what looks like a series of spurious complaints about them.
Getting Brexit done
- discovolante
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Re: Getting Brexit done
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Something else.discovolante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 pmWhat are you on about? What do you think is going on?Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:08 pmI don't know if I am in favour of foreign students or not. Emotionally I feel that they are a good idea, but if Boris Johnson is in favour, then there must be something else going on.jdc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm
If foreign students aren't taking places that should go to British students, aren't receiving free tuition so aren't costing the taxpayer money, and are paying their fees to universities rather than Boris and his friends... then how are Boris's cronies profiting mightily at the expense of the average person by allowing universities to take foreign students? I'm sure Boris's cronies thoroughly enjoy profiting mightily at the expense of the average person (I know I do), I'm just not seeing how they're managing to do so in this instance.
btw, if you're generally in favour of foreign students, it's a bit odd that you've managed to raise what looks like a series of spurious complaints about them.
Honestly Disco, how much clearer do you want them to be?
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Surely one 'thing' that is going on with foreign students is that universities make quite a lot of money from them, and the government can use this as an excuse to fund universities less. We know that there's a school of thought that wants universities to be fully private businesses run for profit. The other thing that economically-conservative-people-who-aren't-particularly-racist like about it is that it's a good way to siphon off smart hard working people from other countries, for the benefit of the domestic economy.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
My foreign students pay over £39,000 p.a. A proportion of this goes immediately and directly to the NHS. In a few years time, there will be hundreds of extra NHS doctors, trained in the UK, at essentially no cost to the UK Government. The presence of these and other foreign students, in a highly deprived area, where they rent property, buy clothes, food and leisure activities, is huge. In fact, the University appears to be the sole engine of economic regeneration in a declining area, but that engine is very powerful, transforming a declining town and replacing derelict areas with new buildings and facilities. The knock on benefits to building and trade must be enormous.Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:08 pmI don't know if I am in favour of foreign students or not. Emotionally I feel that they are a good idea, but if Boris Johnson is in favour, then there must be something else going on.jdc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm
If foreign students aren't taking places that should go to British students, aren't receiving free tuition so aren't costing the taxpayer money, and are paying their fees to universities rather than Boris and his friends... then how are Boris's cronies profiting mightily at the expense of the average person by allowing universities to take foreign students? I'm sure Boris's cronies thoroughly enjoy profiting mightily at the expense of the average person (I know I do), I'm just not seeing how they're managing to do so in this instance.
btw, if you're generally in favour of foreign students, it's a bit odd that you've managed to raise what looks like a series of spurious complaints about them.
edit p.s. the area voted for Brexit
Re: Getting Brexit done
This. How long the negotiations take depends on how many of May's red lines Johnson drops. Since he got his current deal in super-quick time by dropping the "united UK" red line, and successfully selling as him being a brilliant negotiator and not as him giving in, that's very possible. If he accepts FOM, a deal could be done by January (OK, that one won't happen). Accept alignment on environmental, employment and a couple of other regs, and maybe pay a bit onto the pot, it could be done by the end of 2020. My hunch is that's what will happen, and he'll face down the "take back control" crowd.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:29 pmOn the speed of negotiations. As we saw in October they could be fast so long as Johnson gives the EU everything it asks for.
They’ll slow down as soon as Johnson decides to actually negotiate.
Re: Getting Brexit done
I hope your right (given where we are now) but my hunch is the opposite - that he'll cave to the ERG entryists and alt-right backroom influencers and go WTO (with very small pluses) almost immediately hoping to muddle through on hasty US and other trade deals. I dont see much evidence that he personally is a coherent long term planner, so the question is who's plan gets his ear.Accept alignment on environmental, employment and a couple of other regs, and maybe pay a bit onto the pot, it could be done by the end of 2020. My hunch is that's what will happen, and he'll face down the "take back control" crowd.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Getting Brexit done
I think we'll see from what happens to Cummings.
Johnson doesn't need anybody any more. If Cummings is out then maybe he'll soften, if he remains then it's a hard Brexit.
Johnson doesn't need anybody any more. If Cummings is out then maybe he'll soften, if he remains then it's a hard Brexit.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: Getting Brexit done
Nobody is emotionally invested in the trade deal, just the 31 Jan "Brexit". I doubt the negotiations will make the news because they're tedious and the country is sick of talking about it. There'll be plenty of room for Johnson to sign up to anything, nobody will give a sh.t except extremists.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
The same could have been said about Trump.lpm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:47 amNobody is emotionally invested in the trade deal, just the 31 Jan "Brexit". I doubt the negotiations will make the news because they're tedious and the country is sick of talking about it. There'll be plenty of room for Johnson to sign up to anything, nobody will give a sh.t except extremists.
I still think Johnson could easily decide it's too difficult and would diminish his adulation/ be boring. Or he could decide to go full on.
I wouldn't be sure even he knows.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Getting Brexit done
What will the makeup of the European Parliament be without the UK there to f.ck things up?
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: Getting Brexit done
I have little doubt that role will easily be filled.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:51 pmWhat will the makeup of the European Parliament be without the UK there to f.ck things up?
- TAFKAsoveda
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Re: Getting Brexit done
It's ok, it will be illegal to extend the withdrawal agreement which means we now hold none of the cards and have to cave to all EU demands.
That's why Mr Johnson's team have announced that isn't it?
That's why Mr Johnson's team have announced that isn't it?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Yes Not that I am an expert in any of this stuff
Bit busy with work at the minute, but a couple of things
1) Services
In 2017 services accounted for 45 per cent of total UK exports, or £277 billion. The EU received 40 per cent of British services exports, the highest proportion of any UK trading partner. Unlike goods, where it runs a deficit, the UK ran a total trade surplus in services of £112 billion.
2) Trade Deals are very different to the Single Market - they may abolish quotas and tariffs but there is still a load of non tariff barriers that are much more important than tariffs. Also to qualify for zero tariffs you have to prove Rules of Origin for all the components of your product, which may be so difficult it is easier just to pay the tariff.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Perhaps... that's one option certainly. Cave in to everything so quickly no-one gets the opportunity to point it out and we leave and nothing gets much worse and hope no-one notices we're a rule taker. If they do, tell them that's what they voted for.TAFKAsoveda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:46 amIt's ok, it will be illegal to extend the withdrawal agreement which means we now hold none of the cards and have to cave to all EU demands.
That's why Mr Johnson's team have announced that isn't it?
Or assuming the desire is a no deal - then he can blame the EU for trying to slow us down which we won't do and therefore we crash out.
If anything I see the negotiation phase as needing longer than the withdrawal phase - and that's taken over 3 years. So this looks like brinksmanship, trying to put the EU and the Hoc under time pressure to agree a deal such that they can't scrutinise too much - it won't work though. Even if the HoC doesn't want to take it's time then the EU will.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
- Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Brexit with no deal?
WTO rules?
Car industry would be well f.cked
Oh look how they voted
WTO rules?
Car industry would be well f.cked
Oh look how they voted
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
Re: Getting Brexit done
There are no WTO rules anymore. Or at least, there's no way of enforcing them.
- Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done
True - so we are even more f.cked?
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
It's almost as if nobody had thought of this*. Have they done a similar one about Aerospace yet?
*Apart from me banging on about it in the 'other' place ad nauseam
*Apart from me banging on about it in the 'other' place ad nauseam
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Re: Getting Brexit done
I'm in the process of writing 57 detailed sectoral analyses for the DExEu but wikipedia is blocked at work and the Ctrl and C keys on my computer are broken.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Getting Brexit done
My sister has said she'll lose her job at a manufacturing consultancy next month. Her company has Siemens as their main client, who will move all Irish work to Ireland, and move all manufacturing here to the continent, because they don't know what tariffs will look like.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Just tell her "Blue passports!" and that'll cheer her up.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:59 pmMy sister has said she'll lose her job at a manufacturing consultancy next month. Her company has Siemens as their main client, who will move all Irish work to Ireland, and move all manufacturing here to the continent, because they don't know what tariffs will look like.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Yeah this. Foreign students are effectively subsidising UK students. What Johnson and his ilk like is that they enable UK universities to function at a higher level than they would otherwise manage were they dependent solely on UK students and their government-subsidised debt. They're basically a cash cow.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:00 amSurely one 'thing' that is going on with foreign students is that universities make quite a lot of money from them, and the government can use this as an excuse to fund universities less. We know that there's a school of thought that wants universities to be fully private businesses run for profit. The other thing that economically-conservative-people-who-aren't-particularly-racist like about it is that it's a good way to siphon off smart hard working people from other countries, for the benefit of the domestic economy.
Don't have a link to hand, but it's already the case that they have to leave after graduating unless they find a job within a few months.
The UK is weird in that it recently (during May's stint at the home office, I think) started counting foreign students as immigrants, which most countries don't as they're on a temporary visa etc.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Not only that, they were being counted every time they came in, but not necessarily on the way out. Good way of counting 3 immigrants for every one student. No wonder we had so many..
Re: Getting Brexit done
Also, in my area of high tech manufacturing and development foreign postdocs are pretty important.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Getting Brexit done
Today I had to have a conversation with the Italian PhD I hired in which he expressed his fears about Brexit, about his right to stay in the UK and his wish to do so even if he is allowed. Depending on how levels of intolerance go over the next twelve months I might lose a f.cking brilliant member of my team because of c.nts.
I mean, for f.cking f.ck's sake. The fact that I even have to have this conversation is a f.cking outrage.
I mean, for f.cking f.ck's sake. The fact that I even have to have this conversation is a f.cking outrage.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued