Possibly one of these: https://www.pass-scheme.org.uk/card-suppliers/ which is a mixture of free cards and paid ones.sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:10 pm#1 daughter is 30 next week but still takes great delight in telling us every time she gets carded for buying alcohol. That makes me wonder what the average 18 year old in the UK uses for that, given that many people (and, disproportionately, those from poorer backgrounds) don't have driving licences.
ID cards
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- After Pie
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Re: ID cards
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- After Pie
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Re: ID cards
In other words we should start an ID card scheme so that it can be the thin and of the wedge to introduce more and more stuff. Not exectly a convincing argument!sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:34 pmI would be happy for it to remain voluntary initially, but if the government wanted to make it mandatory to show officiai ID to vote at the next general election and gave people enough notice to apply for it, I don't see why it couldn't be required for that.
It could also become the basis of a truly progressive secure online identity system.
And to address your point about voting, it should not be required for voting because it is not necessary and there is no excuse for introducing extra unnecessary restrictions on voting.
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- After Pie
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Re: ID cards
Why do they check your number? In the UK deliveries are to addresses, not people, so anyone on the premises at the time of delivery can accept it (possibly providing a signature, but not even that most of the time).sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:01 pmwhen someone calls to check if I'm in before they make a delivery, for example, they say "Hola, ¿Nicholas?" and not "Hola, ¿Sr. Brown?", because when they arrive they will just confirm my number.
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Re: ID cards
That'll be for the high value items, like the cases of champagne and caviar that we all get from the Big Pharma.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:44 amWhy do they check your number? In the UK deliveries are to addresses, not people, so anyone on the premises at the time of delivery can accept it (possibly providing a signature, but not even that most of the time).sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:01 pmwhen someone calls to check if I'm in before they make a delivery, for example, they say "Hola, ¿Nicholas?" and not "Hola, ¿Sr. Brown?", because when they arrive they will just confirm my number.
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Re: ID cards
Well I've never been asked for ID when accepting a delivery at home (although at work the courier might ask my name just so the tracking information on the website can be updated to say "ACCEPTED BY SLPAMAN") but of course I need ID to pick something up from the post office.
I don't remember needing my ID for anything recently, but then I can't remember if I'm arguing against people who say you don't need ID cards because you never need ID for anything, or people who say ID cards are bad because you'll end up needing them for everything.
I don't remember needing my ID for anything recently, but then I can't remember if I'm arguing against people who say you don't need ID cards because you never need ID for anything, or people who say ID cards are bad because you'll end up needing them for everything.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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- Rich Scopie
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Re: ID cards
Morrison's via Amazon wanted to see ID for a delivery the other week. Admittedly, it was entirely beer, but I was a bit surprised.
It first was a rumour dismissed as a lie, but then came the evidence none could deny:
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
Re: ID cards
It sounds rather as though ID cards are a solution looking for a problem. Indeed recent posts show that the slippery slope does exist: introduce cards for legitimate purposes and they'll end up being required for spurious reasons.
Re: ID cards
We don't have ID cards here, and the slippery slope of requiring ID for spurious reasons has already been gone down. The same has already happened in the UK, as is well documented in this thread, including by the post right above yours. And that's the problem that free universal ID cards are the solution to.
Re: ID cards
I’ve read Rich’s post a couple of times now and I still can’t see the bit where he said it was a problem. Proving your age in order to receive a delivery of an age-restricted item is a use case adequately covered by types of ID that already exist.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through
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Re: ID cards
Only if you hold one of those types of ID. What does an 18-year-old with no driving licence or passport do?
Something something hammer something something nail
Re: ID cards
Yes. The responses here stink of privilege and lack of imagination.sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:48 pmOnly if you hold one of those types of ID. What does an 18-year-old with no driving licence or passport do?
And even if you do have a driver's license, you still need several forms of ID and proof of address to do things like rent a car. And that's getting harder with more bills going paperless.
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Re: ID cards
Every bank, utility company, and government department: "Yay! We're going paperless! From now on we will only send PDFs! Save the planet!"
Also every bank, utility company, and government department: "Please send three proofs of address, on original letterhead paper. Printouts of a PDF you did at home are not acceptable."
Something something hammer something something nail
Re: ID cards
Proof of age is a different problem from proof of ID, and an ID card is overkill for proof of age. For most people, proof of age can be achieved with sufficient accuracy by just looking at the person. For the rest of the population, proof of age cards are available that do not require the full might of an ID database.
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Re: ID cards
Yeah, they cost £15. And to get one you either need a passport, a driving licence, an EU ID card, or a "trusted" person who is prepared to vouch for your identity. In other words, a database containing precisely the same information as any national ID card system would have, but run by a private company. What could possibly go wrong?
Something something hammer something something nail
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Re: ID cards
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply it was a problem. Just that I've never been asked for ID for delivery of anything, including booze before.
Had it been for my girlfriend, that could have been a problem, as she has neither driving license nor passport.
If I recall correctly, the last time a national ID card scheme was introduced in the UK, it was entirely voluntary, and you had to pay for it, but it was sold as being a form of ID that would be universally accepted. Trouble was, hardly anyone did accept it, and it was quietly withdrawn.
It first was a rumour dismissed as a lie, but then came the evidence none could deny:
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
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Re: ID cards
I generally find that proof of age is adequately dealt with by a patronising smile and the words “oh that is soooooooo sweet”.
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- After Pie
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Re: ID cards
That's just one of them. The Young Scot card (https://young.scot/the-young-scot-card) is free and does not require a pre-existing ID (see the FAQ for what is required).sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:07 pmYeah, they cost £15. And to get one you either need a passport, a driving licence, an EU ID card, or a "trusted" person who is prepared to vouch for your identity. In other words, a database containing precisely the same information as any national ID card system would have, but run by a private company. What could possibly go wrong?
Note that when such a scheme is run by a private company, you need to be worried that the data might fall into the wrong hands. With a government scheme you have no such worry as it is already there.
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Re: ID cards
The Young Scot card is issued by local authorities.
Would local governments issuing ID be better than national ones? (Much like the US having state rather than national ID cards)
Would local governments issuing ID be better than national ones? (Much like the US having state rather than national ID cards)
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
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Re: ID cards
In Italy the ID card is issued by the local council, while the passport (and foreigners' permit to stay) is issued by the local police inspectorate (questura).
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: ID cards
For the ID cards, is that as part of a national system and the council does the paperwork, or does each council have its own system?
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Re: ID cards
You're already in the council system (the "anagraph") when you go there to tell them that you're now resident in their council (and the council check that you are paying the rubbish collection tax to them, and sometimes they might even send someone around to where you live to check that you live there), but I expect this is connected to a national system.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 amFor the ID cards, is that as part of a national system and the council does the paperwork, or does each council have its own system?
So for the old paper ID all you had to do was show up with photos and since they already have you in their system they could make you an ID card. For other applications, they can produce a document which attests that your residence is in their system.
The new ID card is in the standard European biometric credit-card format and I haven't tried to get one of those yet; first I should get the special biometric permit-of-stay card for British citizens from the questura. For that, I will need to prove that I was resident here before 31/12/2020 i.e. using the document which attests that my residence is in the council's system which I'd handily asked for in November for my UK passport renewal; otherwise I don't see why my ID card doesn't attest that. But this does highlight how the police don't necessarily have direct access to that information.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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