Scrutable

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:35 pm

Grumble wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:57 pm

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:24 pm Reports say one of the people who died accidentally tasered himself and had a heart attack.

I probably shouldn’t have laughed when I read that. I’m a terrible person.

To be fair the guy killed a fascist, which is more than I've ever done despite my big talk.

That is a genuine LOL there.

Absolutely shocking: legislators attempt to thwart a democratic decision, violent protests in the legislative building, troops called into the premises to restore order: disgraceful, and an international embarassment.

Still, at least no one died, unlike Washington.

Spoiler:

Little waster wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:51 pm

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:24 pm

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am https://twitter.com/holmescnn/status/13 ... 7273608194

Sounds from this they were mean to the revolutionaries. Unsporting.

This clip will always be my favourite.

Reports say one of the people who died accidentally tasered himself and had a heart attack.

It's very much a four lions sort of a revolution.

Tut, tut haven't a thousand chin-stroking Guardian articles taught us that we shouldn't call out racists fuckwits on their racism and f.ckwittery.

No they should be pandered to and told they have legitimate greviances and that their unhinged delusions should be taken seriously and their Will must be implemented at any cost and under no circumstances should they ever be confronted..

If we do that then nothing but good things happen.

But the Guardian is still one of the few places that commissions pieces from people who know what the f.ck they're talking about. The wider conversation about taking into account the backgrounds and circumstances of the racist fuckwits as a means of countering them and their influence is based on sound social science research. There's no silver bullet, but talking to them, taking them seriously and addressing those of their grievances that are legitimate is still the only real way we have of persuading people that what they're doing is maybe not helping and then de-escalating the whole situation. This is not indulging anyone's racism or liberal Guardian chin stroking. But certainly shouting "you're a racist f.cker" is guaranteed to almost never help.

Having written a book on apocalyptic death cults, I also consider myself to be something of an expert on Trumpism. I suppose most people will have heard of the siege at Waco, and how that all ended in complete disaster. What is less know is that after the event there was a long introspective inquiry and a series of recommendations from social scientists on what should have been done instead. There were several similar situations after Waco, only we never hear about them because they didn't end in disaster. And that is because people sat down and talked.

warumich wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:42 pmThere's no silver bullet, but talking to them, taking them seriously and addressing those of their grievances that are legitimate is still the only real way we have of persuading people that what they're doing is maybe not helping and then de-escalating the whole situation. This is not indulging anyone's racism or liberal Guardian chin stroking.

Just to reiterate that this doesn't mean pandering to racists or racism. People very rarely care only about one thing. Someone might well car about issues like jobs, healthcare, education or housing and people can take those concerns seriously without supporting racist opinions.

There's a video going round on social media supposedly showing police letting Trumpists through the barriers. Apparently it didn't happen like that: https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/13 ... 99360?s=20

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:06 pm I get the impression that they sincerely believed that the police and military would join them in kicking out the corrupt congress and installing Trump as rightful president. Must have been disappointing when it didn't have a movie script ending.

There weren't enough police there to help them and the military weren't there at all. Trump deliberately kept the National Guard away. If it had been a BLM protest they'd have been 4 ranks deep around the building with automatic weapons. There's only one logical explanation, Trump has secretly been antifa all along.

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:24 pm

lpm wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am https://twitter.com/holmescnn/status/13 ... 7273608194

Sounds from this they were mean to the revolutionaries. Unsporting.

This clip will always be my favourite.

Reports say one of the people who died accidentally tasered himself and had a heart attack.

It's very much a four lions sort of a revolution.

If you are a prosecuting lawyer, then this might make a felony murder conviction pretty easy:

https://twitter.com/Sophiavista17/statu ... 0008359938

I just heard that a friend's boyfriend, who is a Capitol Police officer, was beaten with a bat and stabbed and is in hospital.

That's awful. Hoping for a swift recovery.

bolo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:31 pm I just heard that a friend's boyfriend, who is a Capitol Police officer, was beaten with a bat and stabbed and is in hospital.

For all the criticism of the police I actually thought they did the best job they could given there clearly weren’t enough of them. Hope he recovers quickly.

dyqik wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:23 pm Seems that Pence will never entertain the idea of using the 25th Amendment.

Which seems disqualifying for a VP.

It's hard to tell, but it is very possible that a woman's life could be saved if he had the f.cking humanity.

Gfamily wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am

dyqik wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:23 pm Seems that Pence will never entertain the idea of using the 25th Amendment.

Which seems disqualifying for a VP.

It's hard to tell, but it is very possible that a woman's life could be saved if he had the f.cking humanity.

He's too pro-life to do that.

monkey wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 am Trump's conceded (sort of).

Trump did the bare minimum to give Pence cover for but invoking the 25th.

He's still too evil for Betsy DeVos. Which is pretty f.cking evil.

Blue lives clearly don’t matter that much.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

I think criticism of the police response should be focused on the planning. Why wasn’t a deterrent level of force on show? The police officers in the building were clearly caught unprepared, and that responsibility goes right to the top level of command.

Grumble wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:02 am Blue lives clearly don’t matter that much.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

I think criticism of the police response should be focused on the planning. Why wasn’t a deterrent level of force on show? The police officers in the building were clearly caught unprepared, and that responsibility goes right to the top level of command.

I agree. I don't see that the officers at the scene could have done much else. But who decided that there would be so few of them?

Woodchopper wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:40 am

Grumble wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:02 am Blue lives clearly don’t matter that much.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

I think criticism of the police response should be focused on the planning. Why wasn’t a deterrent level of force on show? The police officers in the building were clearly caught unprepared, and that responsibility goes right to the top level of command.

I agree. I don't see that the officers at the scene could have done much else. But who decided that there would be so few of them?

That's the important question. Given that five people, including a police officer, have died there will have to be a major investigation into the decision making.

I would not be surprised if it turned out to be Trump's decision.

There must be a little imp on Pence's shoulder, pondering aloud about being president for a couple of weeks, and at least being remembered by history as a quiz question.

In other matters, best wishes for a swift and full recovery for your friends BF, Bolo.

Sorry to hear that Bolo. Hope he's recovering.

The police clearly were correct in retreating when faced with overwhelming numbers and then de-escalating the situation. There were places were they needed to hold the line and it sounds like the rioter was shot because there several members of Congress yards away who hadn't yet been moved to safety. That video of 50 or so rioters leaving while a cop holds the door open for them is enraging but the approach probably saved lives.

The number of people who self-prosecute themselves with their own video feeds is amazing. Even after 24 hours to cool off and give it some thought they still believe they are patriots who will be treated as heroes. Only now is a sense of puzzlement creeping in, in a "are we the bad guys?" way.

And Trump betraying them is a fabulous conclusion.

The "Gloria" video is misleading. It was from about 11 a.m. ET, before Trump even spoke at the rally.

I know because I had the rally on in the background while waiting for Trump to speak (he was nearly an hour late, as usual) and they played the crowd the song.

They were pumped up in anticipation of calling their suckers to insurrection, rather than pumped up at watching their suckers in insurrection.

The galactic scriptwriters have asked me if ending the show with Trump assassination is too much. I said no. Jared and Ivanka should arrange it, then ride the sympathy wave to the White House in 2024. At the very least fake an attempted assassination.

I can't see any other way for Trump to regain popularity.

I've watched the 2:41 long "concession" speech so you don't have to (it's on twitter at the usual racistDonaldTrump place).

It's been faked.

The fake is at the edit at 1:28. His staffers clearly had to cut a rant. They didn't really bother to hide it - the camera angle jumps and Trump is suddenly speaking at a significantly higher pitch and faster pace.

With the edit the staffers have made it say "Now Congress has certified the results a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th".

What Trump actually said was:

"Now Congress has certified the results [UNKNOWN RANTING HERE... UNKNOWN START TO SENTENCE] a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th".

The other interesting thing is watching anger leakage. Particularly around the 1:00 mark. He stabs at certain words and his body twists with suppressed rage.

Surprise surprise, the BBC reports the words as if it's not been obviously edited.

He simply did not say the sentence in bold. Others have faked the video to make it appear he says this sentence.

President Trump returned to Twitter on Thursday following a 12-hour freeze of his account.

"Now Congress has certified the results a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th," the Republican said in a video, without mentioning Biden by name.

His message was the closest he has come to a formal acceptance of his defeat after weeks of falsely insisting he actually won the election in a "landslide".

JQH wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:55 am

Woodchopper wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:40 am

Grumble wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:02 am Blue lives clearly don’t matter that much.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

I think criticism of the police response should be focused on the planning. Why wasn’t a deterrent level of force on show? The police officers in the building were clearly caught unprepared, and that responsibility goes right to the top level of command.

I agree. I don't see that the officers at the scene could have done much else. But who decided that there would be so few of them?

That's the important question. Given that five people, including a police officer, have died there will have to be a major investigation into the decision making.

I would not be surprised if it turned out to be Trump's decision.

The president doesn’t have control of the Capitol Police though does he? He might have blocked National Guard from being deployed though.

JQH wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:55 am

Woodchopper wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:40 am

Grumble wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:02 am Blue lives clearly don’t matter that much.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

I think criticism of the police response should be focused on the planning. Why wasn’t a deterrent level of force on show? The police officers in the building were clearly caught unprepared, and that responsibility goes right to the top level of command.

I agree. I don't see that the officers at the scene could have done much else. But who decided that there would be so few of them?

That's the important question. Given that five people, including a police officer, have died there will have to be a major investigation into the decision making.

I would not be surprised if it turned out to be Trump's decision.

I have a sneaky suspicion it may be more nuanced than that - an depressingly, mainly around "optics", which again goes back to white/right privilege - in being reluctant to deploy the national guard they didn't want it to appear that government were putting down a protest... and it took far too long for them to realise the gravity of the situation.