Scrutable

sheldrake wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:56 pm I'm in Northamptonshire, and several of the garages mentioned did not have queues outside at all this weekend, I know because I drove past them (and used one of them)

Did you check that the ones you drove past were open? In many areas a filling station with no queues meant that it was closed due to having no fuel.

27 drivers from the EU I'd really going to help you save Christmas.

27 drivers from the EU who can deliver to every home in a single night.

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:38 am 27 drivers from the EU who can deliver to every home in a single night.

Is that one from each country? Have they been selected like the Hunger Games? "One of you must be sacrificed to go to the UK to drive HGVs!"

Millennie Al wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:58 am

sheldrake wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:44 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:27 pm Can you point us to the article in the Withdrawal Agreement or the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement which mentions this "meant to be temporary" thing?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... eement.pdf

DETERMINED that the application of this Protocol should impact as little as possible on the everyday
life of communities in both Ireland and Northern Ireland,

RECALLING that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom and will
benefit from participation in the United Kingdom's independent trade policy,
HAVING REGARD to the importance of maintaining the integral place of Northern Ireland in the
United Kingdom’s internal market,

And in particular

Having regard to Northern Ireland's integral place in the United Kingdom's internal market, the
Union and the United Kingdom shall use their best endeavours to facilitate the trade between
Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom, in accordance with applicable
legislation and taking into account their respective regulatory regimes as well as the
implementation thereof. The Joint Committee shall keep the application of this paragraph
under constant review and shall adopt appropriate recommendations with a view to avoiding
controls at the ports and airports of Northern Ireland to the extent possible.

The UK government's point is that the EU has not been making a best endeavour as described in the bolded section. I agree with the UK government on this point. The EU's goal is to attempt to enact a punishment for leaving the EU, and politicians from many EU member nations have actually voiced agreement.

None of that says that anything is temporary. Point out the words which make it temporary.

The part about using best endeavours to facilitate trade within the UK. The EU has been obstructive in efforts to find ways of streamlining checks between northern ireland and the rest of the UK. Thats why article 16 may soon be invoked, the UK is entitled to do that if we dont feel the other party is operating according to the spirit of the agreement

Millennie Al wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:02 am

sheldrake wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:56 pm I'm in Northamptonshire, and several of the garages mentioned did not have queues outside at all this weekend, I know because I drove past them (and used one of them)

Did you check that the ones you drove past were open? In many areas a filling station with no queues meant that it was closed due to having no fuel.

Kettering, Northants, a few days ago: a queue of 20 motorists following a tanker round town (that was carrying dried cement...) - that made it onto the local news. Maybe get off your laptop, Sheldrake?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketteri ... 173993826/

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:52 am

Millennie Al wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:02 am

sheldrake wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:56 pm I'm in Northamptonshire, and several of the garages mentioned did not have queues outside at all this weekend, I know because I drove past them (and used one of them)

Did you check that the ones you drove past were open? In many areas a filling station with no queues meant that it was closed due to having no fuel.

Kettering, Northants, a few days ago: a queue of 20 motorists following a tanker round town (that was carrying dried cement...) - that made it onto the local news. Maybe get off your laptop, Sheldrake?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketteri ... 173993826/

I can't be accountable for every small band of lunatics. I know what happens when I go to buy fuel. It's freely available, without £30 limit. Kettering is famously over-quota on village idiots.

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:38 am 27 drivers from the EU who can deliver to every home in a single night.

When I was a kid we went on one of those "meet Santa" holidays. I have it on good authority that he's Finnish.

So him plus 26 magical elves should do just fine.

I just hope the reindeer can make it through quarantine, instead of being killed by the state like that poor llama.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 am

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:38 am 27 drivers from the EU who can deliver to every home in a single night.

When I was a kid we went on one of those "meet Santa" holidays. I have it on good authority that he's Finnish.

So him plus 26 magical elves should do just fine.

I just hope the reindeer can make it through quarantine, instead of being killed by the state like that poor llama.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-58718085

you can add a whole bunch of pigs to that list

Irish meat plant boss wants more work permits for non-EU citizens

https://tippfm.com/news/economy-employm ... ure-staff/

Previously cordial relationship continues its descent into angry threats, trolling and b.llsh.t:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ow-channel

I think they're still cross about the submarines.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:25 am ...
The part about using best endeavours to facilitate trade within the UK. The EU has been obstructive in efforts to find ways of streamlining checks between northern ireland and the rest of the UK. Thats why article 16 may soon be invoked, the UK is entitled to do that if we dont feel the other party is operating according to the spirit of the agreement

All because you ‘trigger’ Article 16 that does not make it a gun

The Law and Politics of triggering Article 16

What is this “Article 16” that the United Kingdom is threatening to trigger?

I think it would better facilitate a conversation if you gave your own views or commentary on what was in these blog posts rather than a straight link-drop.

From February !

https://twitter.com/AntonSpisak/status/ ... 3866426369

I don't really know anything about it but lawyers and trade wonks seem to say


Article 16 *isn't* a means of revoking the Protocol.

It isn't a means of temporarily suspending or disapplying the Protocol.

It isn't a means of addressing reasonably foreseeable consequences of applying the Protocol

Article 16 *is* a way of addressing issues with the Protocol that were not reasonably foreseen, but which have led to serious societal/econ/envi difficulties as a direct result.

PeteB wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:19 pm From February !

https://twitter.com/AntonSpisak/status/ ... 3866426369

It's a twitter post by an economist who works at Tony Blair's non-profit. Are you suggesting I treat his opinions on international law as facts?

Both of these sources seem to be continuity remain campaigners. Have you looked back at their other predictions from 2, 3, 5 years ago and compared them to reality ? (genuinely curious, I don't follow all these twitter intellectuals).

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:26 pm
Both of these sources seem to be continuity remain campaigners.

Well to the extent that David Allen Green said he would have voted for May's Brexit deal, but to some I guess that would amount to continuity remain I suppose

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 pm Irish meat plant boss wants more work permits for non-EU citizens

https://tippfm.com/news/economy-employm ... ure-staff/

Do you have some sort of point with this? You do know that we in Ireland have large populations of people from Brazil working in our meat factories already?

Or are you doing your usual half assed whataboutery with no real knowledge of what you are talking about?

We are still a metric tonne more food secure than the UK is.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:34 pm I think they're still cross about the submarines.

Justifiably according to Malcolm Turnbull, by the,way.

PeteB wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:19 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:26 pm
Both of these sources seem to be continuity remain campaigners.

Well to the extent that David Allen Green said he would have voted for May's Brexit deal, but to some I guess that would amount to continuity remain I suppose

I wouldnt go that far, but it would be interesting to see what he believed in 2016.

temptar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:23 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 pm Irish meat plant boss wants more work permits for non-EU citizens

https://tippfm.com/news/economy-employm ... ure-staff/

Do you have some sort of point with this? You do know that we in Ireland have large populations of people from Brazil working in our meat factories already?

Or are you doing your usual half assed whataboutery with no real knowledge of what you are talking about?

We are still a metric tonne more food secure than the UK is.

Not enough of them, apparently

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:42 pm

temptar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:23 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 pm Irish meat plant boss wants more work permits for non-EU citizens

https://tippfm.com/news/economy-employm ... ure-staff/

Do you have some sort of point with this? You do know that we in Ireland have large populations of people from Brazil working in our meat factories already?

Or are you doing your usual half assed whataboutery with no real knowledge of what you are talking about?

We are still a metric tonne more food secure than the UK is.

Not enough of them, apparently

You still don't have a point. Jesus who even pointed you at a small local radio station's news reporting?

You clutch at straws which don't support your ever changing misinformed arguments.

Your farmers have started to call healthy stock because they cannot get it slaughtered in the normal way. You really and truly don't get what mess your country is in.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:57 am

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:52 am

Millennie Al wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:02 am

Did you check that the ones you drove past were open? In many areas a filling station with no queues meant that it was closed due to having no fuel.

Kettering, Northants, a few days ago: a queue of 20 motorists following a tanker round town (that was carrying dried cement...) - that made it onto the local news. Maybe get off your laptop, Sheldrake?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketteri ... 173993826/

I can't be accountable for every small band of lunatics. I know what happens when I go to buy fuel. It's freely available, without £30 limit. Kettering is famously over-quota on village idiots.

So the garages were open and they followed the tanker anyway? Or the garages were closed?