Scrutable

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:40 pm

PeteB wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:19 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:26 pm
Both of these sources seem to be continuity remain campaigners.

Well to the extent that David Allen Green said he would have voted for May's Brexit deal, but to some I guess that would amount to continuity remain I suppose

I wouldnt go that far, but it would be interesting to see what he believed in 2016.

I found this from 2016 https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/sta ... 4864733184

Have never written in favour of EU and have opposed every treaty since Maastricht.

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:06 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:57 am

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:52 am

Kettering, Northants, a few days ago: a queue of 20 motorists following a tanker round town (that was carrying dried cement...) - that made it onto the local news. Maybe get off your laptop, Sheldrake?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketteri ... 173993826/

I can't be accountable for every small band of lunatics. I know what happens when I go to buy fuel. It's freely available, without £30 limit. Kettering is famously over-quota on village idiots.

So the garages were open and they followed the tanker anyway? Or the garages were closed?

Which garages? What time of day? I have bought fuel in the last week and saw a £30 max in place but no queue. I have driven pat a couple of petrol stations and seen people fuelling up normally since. Is it possible a station was out of fuel and some loonies immediately started following what they thought was a tanker? Yes. Does that match my experience in the last week? No

temptar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:01 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:42 pm

temptar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:23 pm

Do you have some sort of point with this? You do know that we in Ireland have large populations of people from Brazil working in our meat factories already?

Or are you doing your usual half assed whataboutery with no real knowledge of what you are talking about?

We are still a metric tonne more food secure than the UK is.

Not enough of them, apparently

You still don't have a point. Jesus who even pointed you at a small local radio station's news reporting?

You clutch at straws which don't support your ever changing misinformed arguments.

Your farmers have started to call healthy stock because they cannot get it slaughtered in the normal way. You really and truly don't get what mess your country is in.

When was the last time you were in the UK?

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:06 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:57 am

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:52 am

Kettering, Northants, a few days ago: a queue of 20 motorists following a tanker round town (that was carrying dried cement...) - that made it onto the local news. Maybe get off your laptop, Sheldrake?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketteri ... 173993826/

I can't be accountable for every small band of lunatics. I know what happens when I go to buy fuel. It's freely available, without £30 limit. Kettering is famously over-quota on village idiots.

So the garages were open and they followed the tanker anyway? Or the garages were closed?

So looking at Facebook groups for your neck of the woods I see lots of people saying 'there's no problem here, this is media b.llsh.t' on multiple threads started by the local newspaper.
I have no doubt that you and your missus tell the truth about what you see, but it could be that people just a few miles away in the same area, or out at different times have a different experience, eh?

I fuelled up tonight, 10 minute queue, blocking the mini roundabout. The garage isn’t very well placed mind you, it’s only a little one.

I am perfectly willing to believe a shortage of Brazilian Irish meat plant worker’s visas are to blame - I *think* that’s the hill you’re currently dying on?

plodder wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:17 pm I fuelled up tonight, 10 minute queue, blocking the mini roundabout. The garage isn’t very well placed mind you, it’s only a little one.

Imagine. There are people who live in your town who experience things differently to you. Now this could be because you, or they are lying, or it could be because they happen to go to the garage at a different time, or a different garage on the other side of town, or both. What do you think it is?

I am perfectly willing to believe a shortage of Brazilian Irish meat plant worker’s visas are to blame - I *think* that’s the hill you’re currently dying on?

Not related to fuel in the UK, just another example of post-Covid labour shortages around the world.

I waited till today to hunt for petrol, in the hope that the panic buyers were now home with full tanks. Which I think they probably were.

I started with 30 miles of range left, found petrol at the fifth petrol station after 15 miles of driving from place to place. Only a five mins queue. Overall pretty happy with the length of hunt plus queuing, others spent hours on it last week.

Should have said, every station had diesel. Unfortunately I was after petrol as my diesel car is ill with a failed MOT.

That difference in supply probably indicates distribution is still f.cked up, I'm guessing because of general incompetence. But shows why plenty of drivers think shortages are invented and Facebook argue with others in the same region.

My car is a diesel. Looking at maps of where people report fuel shortages most often it seems related to population density. Scotland was all 'green'.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 pm Irish meat plant boss wants more work permits for non-EU citizens

https://tippfm.com/news/economy-employm ... ure-staff/

Did you read that article? And understand it? It says:

Deputy Lowry also stated that the problem is “damaging the competitiveness of the industry”

So not causing shortages - just making the industry less competitive (i.e. pushing up prices).

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:25 am

Millennie Al wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:58 amNone of that says that anything is temporary. Point out the words which make it temporary.

The part about using best endeavours to facilitate trade within the UK.

Then I can only conclude that you either do not understand what "temporary" means or do not understand what "best endeavours" means.

[qupte]
The EU has been obstructive in efforts to find ways of streamlining checks between northern ireland and the rest of the UK.
[/quote]

We have signed an agreement which, by its very nature, puts bounds on what can be done. We did so in the face of the EU offering us more time yet we insisted on this exact agreement. Why should the EU do anything whatsoever beyond what it already specifies? The UK position is very much one of wanting more and refusing to give anything. Only a fool would engage on such terms.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:54 pm
When was the last time you were in the UK?

Dude, I am good but my setting foot in the UK won't put petrol in the stations that don't have it, won't remove rationing where it is in place and won't fill the gaps on the shelves of understocked supermarkets. I am not coming any time soon.

But I trust you enjoyed your trip to Tipperary yesterday.

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:40 pm

PeteB wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:19 pm

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:26 pm
Both of these sources seem to be continuity remain campaigners.

Well to the extent that David Allen Green said he would have voted for May's Brexit deal, but to some I guess that would amount to continuity remain I suppose

I wouldnt go that far, but it would be interesting to see what he believed in 2016.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161112052 ... nd-biases/

"First the negatives:

(1) I am not a particular fan of the European Union and I do not think I have ever written in favour of it (this piece is an example of me being not a EU fan);

(2) if in 2016, the UK somehow had not been a member of the EU, I would not want UK to join it;

(3) had I been able to vote in 1975 I would have voted against UK remaining a member of the (then) EEC;

(4) I have opposed every treaty or major treaty amendment since Maastricht (and I would have voted against each, had they been put to a referendum); and

(5) in my view there are two fundamental problems with the EU – (i) the lack of transparency and (genuine) accountability and (ii) the push to “ever closer union”.

On the other hand:

(1) I do not think Brussels and so on are inherently worse (or better) than Westminster or Whitehall – they are all manifestations of the “State” and seem much-of-a-muchness to me as a liberal;

(2) I was a (reluctant) voter for Remain in 2016 only because of the “Breaking Point” poster and the turn the referendum campaign seemed to take about the time of the tragic death of Jo Cox (I had intended not to vote at all);

(3) I am a supporter of the ECHR and NATO (if not of the EU); and

(4) I am a supporter in principle of there being as few controls on migration and immigration as possible, as I believe both are Good Things."

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm My car is a diesel. Looking at maps of where people report fuel shortages most often it seems related to population density. Scotland was all 'green'.

OMG thinking about this it probably needs its own discipline, we could call it "logistics" after the latin "gist" which is when you have the hang of a thread of an idea but struggle to articulate why it's relevant.

plodder wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:48 am

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm My car is a diesel. Looking at maps of where people report fuel shortages most often it seems related to population density. Scotland was all 'green'.

OMG thinking about this it probably needs its own discipline, we could call it "logistics" after the latin "gist" which is when you have the hang of a thread of an idea but struggle to articulate why it's relevant.

Do you remember being all interested in Northern Ireland being different a few posts back? Turns out it isnt really different.

temptar wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:44 am

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:54 pm
When was the last time you were in the UK?

Dude, I am good but my setting foot in the UK won't put petrol in the stations that don't have it, won't remove rationing where it is in place and won't fill the gaps on the shelves of understocked supermarkets. I am not coming any time soon.

But I trust you enjoyed your trip to Tipperary yesterday.

So you dont really know what life in the UK is like. Have a look at our unemployment figures, rate of inbound immigration (an indicator of how many people want to live here) GDP growth etc.. and compare to other EU countries.

Yeah, it's definitely broad-brush economic figures that indicate quality of life, rather than food on the shelves and fuel in the pumps.

PeteB wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:28 am https://web.archive.org/web/20161112052 ... nd-biases/

Thank you Pete, it seems like he was a very reluctant remainer in 2016. I will read more of his stuff to see how his views evolved, and in particular see how his predictions panned out

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:22 am Yeah, it's definitely broad-brush economic figures that indicate quality of life, rather than food on the shelves and fuel in the pumps.

Most of us have food on the shelves. I dont think a week of panic buying triggered by haulage industry negotiators is really indicative of normal life here either.

sheldrake wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:00 am

plodder wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:48 am

sheldrake wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm My car is a diesel. Looking at maps of where people report fuel shortages most often it seems related to population density. Scotland was all 'green'.

OMG thinking about this it probably needs its own discipline, we could call it "logistics" after the latin "gist" which is when you have the hang of a thread of an idea but struggle to articulate why it's relevant.

Do you remember being all interested in Northern Ireland being different a few posts back? Turns out it isnt really different.

????

????????

lol thanks for another nugget of sage like wisdom in any case.

plodder wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:45 am

sheldrake wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:00 am

plodder wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:48 am

OMG thinking about this it probably needs its own discipline, we could call it "logistics" after the latin "gist" which is when you have the hang of a thread of an idea but struggle to articulate why it's relevant.

Do you remember being all interested in Northern Ireland being different a few posts back? Turns out it isnt really different.

????

????????

lol thanks for another nugget of sage like wisdom in any case.

I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic. Scotland is all green for fuel, just like NI, in the maps I've seen. Scotland and NI operate under the same immigration regime as the rest of the UK. I think these two things show that the NI/England comparison does not demonstrate that the point you thought it might (i.e. that NI having an open land border with an EU state is the reason they're not reporting fuel shortages). You're welcome.

sheldrake wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:29 am

PeteB wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:28 am https://web.archive.org/web/20161112052 ... nd-biases/

Thank you Pete, it seems like he was a very reluctant remainer in 2016. I will read more of his stuff to see how his views evolved, and in particular see how his predictions panned out

He famously predicted the UK wouldn't trigger Article 50. On the grounds that it would be utterly mad to do so until a proper negotiated exit had been fully agreed. So he was simultaneously wrong and right.

He sounds like Peter North (campaigned against the EU for years only to insist that it was wrong to leave this way and got increasingly angry as people in government didn't hire him as a consultant), is he connected to him?

sheldrake wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:03 am He sounds like Peter North (campaigned against the EU for years only to insist that it was wrong to leave this way and got increasingly angry as people in government didn't hire him as a consultant), is he connected to him?

They aren’t connected.

DAG is, of course, a former member of an ex forum some of us used to hang around in.