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Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:20 pm
by dyqik
Brightonian wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:28 pm Somebody told me a long time ago that some voters in western states wait for results in eastern states, where polls close earlier, to vote for a candidate of the party that looks to be winning (to try to get more favourable treatment from the government). Is that of any significance these days? I suppose this time the greater polarisation re Trump, and more early voting, reduces the effect however.
I don't think that's viewed as much of an effect. There are questions about whether early release of results from the East Coast (and particularly "Calls" by the press) affect turnout - you might not bother to wait in line to vote if you think your candidate has already won based on East Coast results.

That would probably only affect the presidential race in Arizona, Nevada or Alaska this year, but could have an effect downballot.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:59 pm
by Woodchopper
dyqik wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:20 pm That would probably only affect the presidential race in Arizona, Nevada or Alaska this year, but could have an effect downballot.
I agree. One thing that has been an issue in the past is when the TV networks call an election based upon exit polling. In 2000 CNN called Florida for Gore at 8.00 pm, which is an hour before polls closed in the Florida panhandle.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:29 pm
by Opti
Both me and ddb and me are ridiculously invested in a Biden win. It's actually occupying much too much space in our heads.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:52 pm
by dyqik
Opti wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:29 pm Both me and ddb and me are ridiculously invested in a Biden win. It's actually occupying much too much space in our heads.
Hi.

We've just had to have a "how do we stop panicking and punching things" conversation here.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 pm
by dyqik
Federal judge has ruled that the GOP plaintiffs don't have standing to throw out 127,000 ballots in Harris County, TX. And agreeing with the Texas State Supreme Court.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 pm
by bolo
Woodchopper wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:59 pm
dyqik wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:20 pm That would probably only affect the presidential race in Arizona, Nevada or Alaska this year, but could have an effect downballot.
I agree. One thing that has been an issue in the past is when the TV networks call an election based upon exit polling. In 2000 CNN called Florida for Gore at 8.00 pm, which is an hour before polls closed in the Florida panhandle.
I believe the major networks now all have policies against calling the presidential election before the West Coast polls close. But not, afaik, against calling individual states, which could be almost the same in some cases (e.g. if Florida goes for Biden early).

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:08 pm
by Opti
dyqik wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:52 pm
Opti wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:29 pm Both me and ddb and me are ridiculously invested in a Biden win. It's actually occupying much too much space in our heads.
Hi.

We've just had to have a "how do we stop panicking and punching things" conversation here.
Yep. We have good friends, all over the US, even Olathe KS, and they all feel exactly the same. Feels a bit like the Cuban missile crisis when I was ... err, 10 years old. :o

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:00 pm
by Grumble
Is it over yet?

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:29 pm
by dyqik
dyqik wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:04 pm Does the USA have the same rules we do about not broadcasting political material on election day?
That would clearly be an infringement of the First Amendment.
In particular (via a letter retweeted by Popehat):
"THE SUPREME COURT HAS ROUNDLY REJECTED PRIOR RESTRAINT!”. Kinney v. Barnes, 57 Tex. Sup. J. 1428 at n.7, (Tex. 2014) (citing SOBCHAK, W., THE BIG LEBOWSKI, 1998)).
In case SteamTraen needs to know how to cite movies in the US legal filings.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:41 pm
by Woodchopper

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Woodchopper wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:41 pm An excellent thread:
https://twitter.com/gathara/status/1322999903753220099
Very nice! Thanks.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:16 pm
by JQH
Opti wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:29 pm Both me and ddb and me are ridiculously invested in a Biden win. It's actually occupying much too much space in our heads.

Believe me, it's not just you.

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:29 pm
by JQH
Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 pm
Woodchopper wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:41 pm An excellent thread:
https://twitter.com/gathara/status/1322999903753220099
Very nice! Thanks.
+1 Shared on Facebook

Re: US Election

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:35 pm
by discovolante
Haha, Gathara did that for the UK too, about Brexit I believe. Or maybe some other stupid sh.t we've done over the last couple of years.

Edit: hahaha I've just noticed he refers to the Gulu river discovery too...jesus how many in-jokes about us are there?

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:30 am
by EACLucifer
BREAKING: Biden wins every vote counted so far!

That's right, Biden has won all five - you heard that right, five nil to Biden - in the all important bellwether of Dixville Notch. Might as well just wrap this up now :lol:

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:41 am
by Martin_B
Under the so-called "Redskins Rule", the outcome of the last Washington Redskins game would appear to show a win for Trump.

From 1936-2008 if the Redskins won the last home game before the presidential election, the incumbent president (or his party) would win the election, and Washington beat Dallas 25-3.

However:
a) the rule hasn't worked in the last two elections.
b) the rule only worked for 2004 because they added an amendment that as the 2000 electoral college winner wasn't the popular vote winner, the rule swapped round for 2004, and as Trump didn't win the popular vote in 2016 the rule should swap for 2020, making Biden the predicted victor.
c) the Washington Redskins changed their name earlier this year, dropping the divisive "Redskins" nickname and are currently playing as "Washington Football Team".

So who knows?

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:33 am
by Vertigowooyay
EACLucifer wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:30 am BREAKING: Biden wins every vote counted so far!

That's right, Biden has won all five - you heard that right, five nil to Biden - in the all important bellwether of Dixville Notch. Might as well just wrap this up now :lol:
Well, you know what they say - "As goes Dixville Notch, so goes the nation"

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:34 am
by Woodchopper
Gosh
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1323454419204231168

Turnout in Texas already exceeds 2016 for except white non-college educated, who are down on 2016.

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:49 am
by Aoui
I suspect the non college educated voters are more likely to lean republican and therefore more likely to vote on the day. My vote was received in my county in TX on 10/10. I was addicted to the ballot tracker until it was marked received. Now I'm checking to see when it's marked as "accepted". If they don't accept it, then it's serious foul play. My county has flipped to Democrat since I moved abroad. My vote now actually counts for something. It's a strange and rather lovely feeling.

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:54 am
by El Pollo Diablo
Trump is going to try to declare victory tonight :roll:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nformation

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:01 am
by lpm
Woodchopper wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:34 am Gosh
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1323454419204231168

Turnout in Texas already exceeds 2016 for except white non-college educated, who are down on 2016.
Not complaining or anything, but how does this person possibly know?

How can he say "Asian votes are at 153%"? You can analyse exit polls from 2016, but a 2020 ballot is a ballot surely? Nobody asks "are you white and non-college" when you mail vote or early vote.

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:05 am
by lpm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:54 am Trump is going to try to declare victory tonight :roll:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nformation
Tonight I'm going to declare myself the first astronaut to land on Mars.

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:42 am
by Little waster
Woodchopper wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:34 am Gosh
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1323454419204231168

Turnout in Texas already exceeds 2016 for except white non-college educated, who are down on 2016.
Beneath that was a senior Republican proudly showing (presumably) his ballot paper with a vote for Biden.

I'm pretty sure that would be illegal in the UK, as it breaches the whole point of a secret ballot, I don't know if the US has different rules?

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:45 am
by El Pollo Diablo
Net approval is only relevant now by proxy, but I thought it interesting to compare Trump's approval rating on the day of the election versus other post-war presidents.

His net approval rating is -8.0 on 538 (+44.6, -52.6).

Of past presidents:

- Truman went into the 1948 election with a famously negative rating of around -5.9%. However, this was due to bad polling, at a time when polling hadn't really got itself sorted yet. He won re-election, after which his popularity was +52.
- Eisenhower was a very popular president, with a net rating of +48.8. He won re-election.
- Kennedy died, leaving Lyndon Johnson in the hot seat. He was very much in a honeymoon period at the time of the 1964 election, with a rating of around 59, less than a year after Kennedy's assassination, and won re-election.
- However, when the time came for Johnson's re-election (his less-than-a-year in charge before the 1964 election constitutionally allowed him to run for re-election in 1968), his popularity was a net negative, and he chose not to run. At the time of the election he was around -9.1.
- Richard Nixon was another popular president in his first term, and was around +32.7 at this stage of his presidency. He won re-election in a historic landslide.
- Obviously though Nixon resigned, and Gerald Ford took over (the only un-elected president). However, Ford's pardon of Nixon was very unpopular, and going into the 1976 election, he was only just about approved of, by +2.3 points. He was not re-elected.
- Jimmy Carter won, but was another unpopular president, particularly after the Iran hostage crisis. At the time of the 1980 election, he was more unpopular than Trump, with a net score of -16.9. He was not re-elected - Reagan won in a landslide.
- Ronald Reagan was, like Nixon and Eisenhower, very popular at the time of re-election, at +24.9. He easily won re-election, again in a historic landslide against Walter Mondale.
- He maxed out in 1988, when George H W Bush won (the only time since 1940 that a party won three presidential elections in a row). However, at the time of the 1992 election, the end of the cold war and the US being in recession led to George H W Bush's unpopularity - he was at -22.9. Added to that, Ross Perot decided to stand as an independent candidate, which sucked up lots of extra votes. Bush lost re-election.
- Bill Clinton went into the 1996 election with a popularity of +21.4, and won re-election.
- In 2004, George W Bush had lost the massive popularity spike he gained after the September 11 attacks, and was sat at only +1.5. He squeaked through, and won re-election by just 35 electoral college votes.
- Barack Obama wasn't actually much more popular than Bush after his first term in 2012 - only +1.8 - but won re-election in the 2012 election by a comfortable margin.

So, in summary, Jimmy Carter and George H W Bush both had negative ratings at the time of going for re-election. Both failed to be re-elected.

Truman had an official net negative rating, but this was probably net positive and hidden by poor polling procedures.

Gerald Ford is the only president to fail to be re-elected despite having a net positive rating (in the same ballpark as Bush Jr and Obama).

Every other president than Ford with a net positive rating won re-election and, in reverse, every other president than Truman who won re-election had a net positive rating beforehand.

Trump does not have a net positive rating.

Re: US Election

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:50 am
by Fishnut
Little waster wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:42 am
Woodchopper wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:34 am Gosh
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1323454419204231168

Turnout in Texas already exceeds 2016 for except white non-college educated, who are down on 2016.
Beneath that was a senior Republican proudly showing (presumably) his ballot paper with a vote for Biden.

I'm pretty sure that would be illegal in the UK, as it breaches the whole point of a secret ballot, I don't know if the US has different rules?
According to a podcast I was listening to, it varies by state. There used to be rules everywhere against showing your ballot to prevent voter intimidation, but now some states have allowed people to share photos of their ballots on social media to encourage others to vote.