Scrutable

Trinucleus wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:21 pm I presume it's occurred to Boris that lorries full of warm vaccine waiting in a queue in Belgium wouldn't go down well

The vaccine is going to be flown in by Spitfires, piloted by Mark Francois and Gavin Williamson making "nnnneeeerrrrratattatatatat" noises.

Nicked!

David Allen Green's new blog post contains one of the best Brexit one-liners (approx) so far:

A Brexit secretary once boasted it would be easy to put in place a free trade area ten times bigger than the European Union.

Leaving aside the fact that such an area would be larger than the world’s economy, and so presumably would include the Clangers and other extraterrestrials, the United Kingdom has actually ended up with a free trade area smaller than the United Kingdom – with a trade barrier down the Irish sea.

heh

with a transition period for phasing in changes understood to be between five and seven years.

plodder wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:33 pm heh

with a transition period for phasing in changes understood to be between five and seven years.

EU sources suggest breakthrough on fish ... UK govt source emerges to say that is not at all the case ...

No deal looking more likely: https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-govt- ... e-12153957

Lots of conflicting reports from London and Brussels, which at the least show that there hasn't been an agreement on fish or anything else.

Even if Johnson has decided to compromise there is very little time, trust and good will. Which makes getting an agreement difficult even if the will is finally there.

Not looking good

Ireland’s foreign minister Simon Coveney says EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has given a “very gloomy, downbeat” assessment of the prospects for a deal to EU ambassadors

[...]

Coveney told @rtenews "there really was no progress made yesterday, so we've got to try to make a breakthrough at some point today"

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status ... 99296?s=20

Named sources make the report much more credible.

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:13 am
Named sources make the report much more credible.

Don't they just. The anonymous briefings just make lobby journalists look like they're gormlessly repeating whatever spin they've been fed.

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:19 am

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:13 am
Named sources make the report much more credible.

Don't they just. The anonymous briefings just make lobby journalists look like they're gormlessly repeating whatever spin they've been fed.

Yep. I'm far from the first to say it, but those journalists are just allowing themselves to be part of governmental propaganda arms.

Anyway, let's see what happens with the Internal Market Bill today. I reckon if it passes the HoC unscathed we're on for no deal

ach, that’s just more b.llsh.t, because the HoL will throw it out, just like the IM bill.

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:36 pm ach, that’s just more b.llsh.t, because the HoL will throw it out, just like the IM bill.

Huh? It is the IM bill. It's back in the HoC today. I thought the Lords don't tend to chuck things out twice? And anyway, does the EU really want to waste time hoping that the Lords will chuck it out again and then the government this time will amend all the problematic sections before they bring it back to the HoC again even though they didn't last time?

That sounds like something that would require patience and goodwill, to me.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:36 pm I mean, in a lot of ways Brexit is done. The UK leaves the EU completely at the end of 2020.

What isn't done yet is the UK sorting out what it's going to to next, but Brexit itself is subject only to the inexorable passage of time.

I think the UK left the EU on January 31st 2020.

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:36 pm ach, that’s just more b.llsh.t, because the HoL will throw it out, just like the IM bill.

The issue is symbolic. Its the UK showing that it can and will renege on a treaty with the EU. The consequence of which is a loss of goodwill and trust which means that the EU wants everything specified and means of redress if the UK reneges in the future.

i don’t agree, i think it’s all stage dressing. otherwise why would they bother, especially now? Smoke and mirrors, the drum roll will start soon.

Boaf the finance bill is another law breaker, i think that’s in the commons today.

Internal Market Bill is Monday.

Taxation Bill (another rule-breaker) is on Wednesday.

Internal Market Bill will be back in the Commons on Thursday if the Lords reject it again.

According to https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55188768

Johnson and von der Leyen to have another conversation later today.

There will be a big EU showdown with Poland and Hungary over the budget etc on Thursday and Friday. So Brexit needs to be sorted by the end of Wednesday.

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:33 pm i don’t agree, i think it’s all stage dressing. otherwise why would they bother, especially now? Smoke and mirrors, the drum roll will start soon.

We'll see. IMHO I think that Johnson expected the EU to fold by now, and doesn't have an alternative plan.

I'm pretty sure the EU have got together a package that has a couple of giveaways for Johnson to squawk victory about, while preserving what's important to them.

But it no longer looks like Johnson will take this offer. Too scared of Farage & Co (or worse interpretations of why he is choosing to destroy the country).

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:56 pm But it no longer looks like Johnson will take this offer. Too scared of Farage & Co (or worse interpretations of why he is choosing to destroy the country).

Yes, a UK 'victory' on fish has been on the cards if the UK gave way on level playing field and governance.

I think Johnson is most scared of the Conservative party members. They would be the ones to vote if there is a leadership challenge from someone from the ERG.

...or someone from the moderate wing...

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:29 pm ...or someone from the moderate wing...

Possible challengers from that wing got kicked out last year.

Kind of. The hardcore awkward squad got booted out, but there are still plenty of people who'd be willing to stake a ground to Deal rather than No Deal, if that's the place we end up. The Tory party has not been reconciled on Europe and never will be - there are too many boring business people who are members who will be greatly concerned by No Deal.

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:45 pm Kind of. The hardcore awkward squad got booted out, but there are still plenty of people who'd be willing to stake a ground to Deal rather than No Deal, if that's the place we end up. The Tory party has not been reconciled on Europe and never will be - there are too many boring business people who are members who will be greatly concerned by No Deal.

Well they're being very quiet at the moment. Lots of noise from Brexiters who say there is nothing to fear from no-deal, eg from today Britain has nothing to fear with a No Deal Brexit — we must stand our ground

I can't think of a prominent Tory politician who is arguing against them.