Scrutable

Trouble in paradise https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status ... 33184?s=21

shpalman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:42 pm Johnson hard at work in May 2020

I’m really trying to reduce my use of bad language but what utter f.cking c.nts

shpalman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:42 pm Johnson hard at work in May 2020

Dominic Cummings from the look of it https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status ... 11654?s=21

Is drinking alcohol at work permitted in government buildings? Does the civil service allow drinking during working hours?

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:41 am Is drinking alcohol at work permitted in government buildings? Does the civil service allow drinking during working hours?

When my parents worked for the civil service there were canteens with bars in the buildings which were open both at lunch and after work. Of course, this was several years ago when it wasn't unusual to drink at lunchtime.

Martin_B wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:45 am

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:41 am Is drinking alcohol at work permitted in government buildings? Does the civil service allow drinking during working hours?

When my parents worked for the civil service there were canteens with bars in the buildings which were open both at lunch and after work. Of course, this was several years ago when it wasn't unusual to drink at lunchtime.

When I worked at the MHRA a couple of decades ago, I think it was possible to buy a beer at the canteen with your lunch.
Certainly the caterers had alcohol available and one could order food and booze from them for a party.
I know that HMG will have booze available - don't they have a famously awesome wine cellar? Shouldn't be a surprise - PMs need to entertain visiting equivalents & a glass of good wine can really get people in a good mood and be conducive to productive negotiations.
So I would expect wine to be available, even if not offered routinely.
It is usually bright in may after 5pm, and judging by the length of the shadows in the picture it would have been an after-work thing.
In normal times it would surely be entirely unremarkable. But those weren't normal times, innit?

I'm talking about 2020 not ancient f.cking history Grandpa.

My work permits "social events (such as the Christmas party) where the consumption of alcohol is authorised, with the prior approval of a Head of Department ".

We're not allowed to be under the influence at work, obviously. Under the influence of alcohol is defined as 22 mg per 100 ml, which is the same as the Scottish drink drive limit (lower than the 35 mg England limit).

I would not be permitted to have alcohol at a "work meeting" and if I was having alcohol with colleagues then it would be post-work social gathering, off the premises.

I'm public sector (not civil service), but it's literally illegal for me or anyone else at my company to drink at work, or to have more than about a third of the drink-drive limit in our systems, even for working at home. Drinking after work is fine if you are in a pub, but in the office? Nah. You'd get told to pack your stuff up there and then.

When you don't have a drinking culture at work, suddenly everyone else's seems weird and unprofessional.

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:11 am I'm talking about 2020 not ancient f.cking history Grandpa.

My work permits "social events (such as the Christmas party) where the consumption of alcohol is authorised, with the prior approval of a Head of Department ".

We're not allowed to be under the influence at work, obviously. Under the influence of alcohol is defined as 22 mg per 100 ml, which is the same as the Scottish drink drive limit (lower than the 35 mg England limit).

I would not be permitted to have alcohol at a "work meeting" and if I was having alcohol with colleagues then it would be post-work social gathering, off the premises.

Your work is not all works.
At my work canteen there is a bottle of white and a few bottles of beer in the fridge & a bottle of red out of the fridge. Always.
When greeting new people, we will often have a meeting to welcome them, a proper one in a meeting room, then adjourn to a communal area and crack open a bottle or two of Prosecco to welcome them in an informal way.
If your work had a nice big garden attached, then you might be permitted to have post-work drinks in the garden.

I used to be based in Canary wharf, and there were clearly very many people who would nip out of their office at lunch to a bar or restaurant and have a glass of wine or a pint with their lunch. Given how many people work in Canary Wharf, I suspect that either it was a hardcore of lunchtime boozers or each person would only do it occasionally, otherwise the bars & restaurants (as opposed to cafes/takeaway places) would have been far busier than they were.

ETA: there's not a drinking culture as such, almost nobody has the booze, but it's available and we are trusted to be responsible.
Before kids I'd sometimes have a glass at Friday lunch, either in the canteen or in a nearby restaurant with a friend.

I wonder if it's partly about driving to work.
In an office in the heart of London, people will get public transport to work; whereas somewhere else, they won't and so if they did have a drink it would be encouraging drink-driving

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:20 am I'm public sector (not civil service), but it's literally illegal for me or anyone else at my company to drink at work, or to have more than about a third of the drink-drive limit in our systems, even for working at home. Drinking after work is fine if you are in a pub, but in the office? Nah. You'd get told to pack your stuff up there and then.

When you don't have a drinking culture at work, suddenly everyone else's seems weird and unprofessional.

I guess this is the weird thing about environments that are public and political. I work for a charity, I don't think it would even cross anyone's mind that any kind of booze in the office would be acceptable, even unopened. I think if it happened and it 'got out', the public reaction would be pretty wide ranging from 'good on you, you deserve it', to 'how dare these so called charity workers get pissed up, I'm cancelling my direct debit IMMEDIATELY, they're not spending my hard earned cash on their piss ups etc etc'. But if you're schmoozing people then all of a sudden it becomes sort of fine again.

shpalman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:42 pm Johnson hard at work in May 2020

I find it very hard to get worked up about this latest one. He’s in the back garden, not in the office. There’s plenty of social distancing on display.

I know I need time to relax, it would be weird if the PM didn’t.

Optics, innit.

Grumble wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:51 am

shpalman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:42 pm Johnson hard at work in May 2020

I find it very hard to get worked up about this latest one. He’s in the back garden, not in the office. There’s plenty of social distancing on display.

I know I need time to relax, it would be weird if the PM didn’t.

I'm trying to remember the specific regulations at the time but I'm sure by May 2020 it was still:-

to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—
(i)alone,
(ii)with one or more members of their household, or
(iii)with one member of another household;”;

None which covers having even a socially-distanced glass of wine in the garden with 17 work colleagues.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:20 am I'm public sector (not civil service), but it's literally illegal for me or anyone else at my company to drink at work, or to have more than about a third of the drink-drive limit in our systems, even for working at home. Drinking after work is fine if you are in a pub, but in the office? Nah. You'd get told to pack your stuff up there and then.

When you don't have a drinking culture at work, suddenly everyone else's seems weird and unprofessional.

Indeed.

In the 1980s it might have been unremarkable. In the 1990s, a bit of a relic and dubious.

But now? Not if it's the sort of meeting where you want to get decisions taken. As opposed to a diplomatic dinner.

And certainly not when the country is forbidden from meeting up even outside.

And where there is a history of lying about such events to the public

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 amOptics, innit.

Certainly that was what was on the desk of one colleague in my last work.

In my current work it's technically ok to have booze in the office (and we do at the Christmas party or when students graduate). But that's only because it's a leased building. If we owned the building, it'd be illegal under Federal law.

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 amOptics, innit.

Looks like they are drinking wine, rather than spirits, mate

Does anyone know if keeping minutes of all Downing Street meetings is mandatory?

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:34 pm Does anyone know if keeping minutes of all Downing Street meetings is mandatory?

I think a lot depends upon how you define a meeting. Formal meetings that have an agenda and are marked on the official calendar would be minuted. But its a grey area for more informal conversations.

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:12 pm

lpm wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:34 pm Does anyone know if keeping minutes of all Downing Street meetings is mandatory?

I think a lot depends upon how you define a meeting. Formal meetings that have an agenda and are marked on the official calendar would be minuted. But its a grey area for more informal conversations.

And that is clearly not a meeting.
It looks a lot like after work drinks, which, if it weren't for lockdown for the rest of the country, should be entirely unremarkable.

If a suit is required for it, I only ever do work at weddings, funerals and job interviews.

shpalman wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:07 pm they were allowed to meet because it was work and allowed to drink because it wasn't work

They need a better spin doctor.
I understand the perfect candidate, who already has a few years experience in pushing propaganda for the tories, will shortly be available

tom p wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:41 pm

shpalman wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:07 pm they were allowed to meet because it was work and allowed to drink because it wasn't work

They need a better spin doctor.
I understand the perfect candidate, who already has a few years experience in pushing propaganda for the tories, will shortly be available

Impeccable timing wont it.