Scrutable

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:55 pm Sunak calling Truss a socialist for wanting to cut taxes for the rich is a new level of weird (seemingly borrowed from the US playbook of anything I don't like = socialism = bad).

I know. f.cking insane, innit?

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:55 pm Sunak calling Truss a socialist for wanting to cut taxes for the rich is a new level of weird (seemingly borrowed from the US playbook of anything I don't like = socialism = bad).

It's become quite widespread political habit these days to accuse people of something before they can accuse you of it with greater force. Hu Jintao calls people he doesn't like imperialists. Putin calls people he doesn't like Nazis. And beware of anyone standing on an anti-corruption ticket just about anywhere dodgy.

I suppose Sunak felt he had to get the accusation in first before people started to accuse him of being the socialist for having the least tax-cutty policy of the various leadership candidates. Levelling up remains the manifesto policy of the conservative party, forgive me while I take this cup of tea in my hand a greater distance from the computer lest I splutter all over it.

Lew Dolby wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:11 pm [haven't watch these so-called debates.] Has she come out with this stuff on TV. If so, Roundhay should sue her for libel.

Public sector bodies can't sue for libel.

JQH wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:42 pm

Lew Dolby wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:11 pm [haven't watch these so-called debates.] Has she come out with this stuff on TV. If so, Roundhay should sue her for libel.

Public sector bodies can't sue for libel.

No, but presumably MPs can be for stuff recorded outside of parliamen.

Politicians should be made to watch the politics rounds on Pointless to see how little people know or care about personality politics. Today was the Cabinet after the September '21 reshuffle - hardly ancient history.

Tessa K wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:53 pm Politicians should be made to watch the politics rounds on Pointless to see how little people know or care about personality politics. Today was the Cabinet after the September '21 reshuffle - hardly ancient history.

Now if the clues were “the sex scandal they resigned over” they might have scored better.

tom p wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:13 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:55 pm Sunak calling Truss a socialist for wanting to cut taxes for the rich is a new level of weird (seemingly borrowed from the US playbook of anything I don't like = socialism = bad).

I know. f.cking insane, innit?

It is, and Liz Truss calling housing targets "Stalinist" is every bit as insane

EACLucifer wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:26 pm

tom p wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:13 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:55 pm Sunak calling Truss a socialist for wanting to cut taxes for the rich is a new level of weird (seemingly borrowed from the US playbook of anything I don't like = socialism = bad).

I know. f.cking insane, innit?

It is, and Liz Truss calling housing targets "Stalinist" is every bit as insane

Socialism is when the government does stuff. And it's more socialism the more stuff it does.

Trevelyan (Team Tugendhat) seemed keen on Badenoch on sky news... and about Tugendhat supporters moving as a block...

Tomorrow could be very interesting, could Tugendhat support swing behind Badenoch, knocking out Truss? Then Truss' support you'd expect would go to Badenoch, knocking out Mourdaunt...

Are any of them significantly more or less sh.t than any of the others? Any have a redeeming (or uniquely damning) feature?

Really struggling to differentiate this bunch.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:10 pm Are any of them significantly more or less sh.t than any of the others? Any have a redeeming (or uniquely damning) feature?

Really struggling to differentiate this bunch.

Apparently they pulled the third debate because it was beginning to resemble the Hunger Games.

I think they’ve missed a trick there.

In fact I’d throw the whole contest open to the entire Conservative parliamentary party and Squid Game ourselves to the next PM.

JQH wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:42 pm

Lew Dolby wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:11 pm [haven't watch these so-called debates.] Has she come out with this stuff on TV. If so, Roundhay should sue her for libel.

Public sector bodies can't sue for libel.

Tongue firmly in cheek...: didn't the Tories take schools out of local authority rule...?

(I know, just being silly)

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:26 pm

tom p wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:13 pm
I know. f.cking insane, innit?

It is, and Liz Truss calling housing targets "Stalinist" is every bit as insane

Socialism is when the government does stuff. And it's more socialism the more stuff it does.

https://youtu.be/gnXUFXc2Yns

I'm so sorry.

discovolante wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:33 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:26 pm

It is, and Liz Truss calling housing targets "Stalinist" is every bit as insane

Socialism is when the government does stuff. And it's more socialism the more stuff it does.

https://youtu.be/gnXUFXc2Yns

I'm so sorry.

Watched it twice. Might go back for more.

jdc wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:24 am

discovolante wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:33 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm

Socialism is when the government does stuff. And it's more socialism the more stuff it does.

https://youtu.be/gnXUFXc2Yns

I'm so sorry.

Watched it twice. Might go back for more.

At which point it becomes Communism.

I see the least mouth-foaming candidate has been dropped. In the context of that field he was my least-bad.

I'm worred about Badenough - she's got the right combination of easy hatred, disregard for facts and sloganising to appeal to the party base, and the energy to do serious damage before the GE date. (And possibly find a way round that particular issue - a thing I genuinely worry about with this lot)

Is there some rule via which candidates who drop out leave some of the letters of their surname to the remaining candidates or something?

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:10 pm Are any of them significantly more or less sh.t than any of the others? Any have a redeeming (or uniquely damning) feature?

Really struggling to differentiate this bunch.

I think that Badenoch seems to be the very worst. An absolute extremist thunderc.nt of Fox News proportions.

I was just thinking Sunak seems to be George Osborne Mk II. And lo and behold I immediately discover that he appointed George Osborne to advise him on policy a couple of days ago.

To me, Sunak seems to be the least swivel-eyed of the remaining candidates. For example, the (non-sectarian) Alliance Party in NI are saying he looks like the least hawkish of (all 8 of) the candidates on the destroy-the-NI-protocol policy.

Unfortunately, he has the skill of coming over as reasonable, but that doesn't mean he is. It's quite clear he is interested in coddling the rich, while politely denying very much for the poor. He describes himself as an economic Thatcherite, which means he wants to balance the budget in a Thatcher grocer's-daughter kind of way. And thus she screwed the poor. At the same time, he is the most reasonable of the remaining candidates on tax - he talks of tax cuts as "jam tomorrow", whereas for the rest it's "jam today".

So there are reasons to hope things might be a bit less chaotic and doctrinal, and a bit more competent under Sunak, in comparison to Johnson. But he represents the long term tradition of Toryism, ie privilege and the wealthy. And like all Tory PMs from Major onwards, he will have trouble with the increasingly numerous swivel-eyed back-benchers, unless he throws them enough meat. They are able to prevent reasonable pragmatism on many things.

The disadvantage is that returning to some sort of less chaotic, less swivel-eyed, rule is that the Tories might still have a hope at the next election.

This is the conundrum - loony, but hopefully easier to beat, Tory until next general election and have to put up with the lunacy, or a moderate Tory where life isn't quite as nuts, but they can do lots of quiet damage and be harder to get rid of.

Little waster wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:04 pm Meanwhile with the country literally on fire, climate change got 5 thirty-second variations of:-

“its vitally important that when our grandchildren are caught between out of control wildfires and rising sea levels they can console themselves in their final agonising moments that at least the fossil fuel companies had a few more years of bumper profits before reality became undeniable and the climate crisis, irreversible”.

Unfortunately Sunak is coming across as the adult in the room. It seemed inconceivable a few short weeks ago that he might have the faintest chance to replace Boris, but I (like most people, it seems) underestimated just how pisspoor the other candidates have been.

I have no idea who I think should win out of the contenders left. You know in Cards Against Humanity, if you don't like what's in your hand you can chuck the whole lot back into the deck and draw a fresh hand? Anyone else wishing they could do this right now?

Tugendhat was ISTM the Kasich of this particular ratfight, the only voice of relative sanity. How the others were allowed to get away with saying "Boris isn't dishonest, no, he's.. er.. misunderstood" without having to address the elephant in the room that the only reason he was allowed to lie his way through for so long until something tipped that balance is because they were supporting him all the way.

It was Liz Truss's to lose: if she had even managed to waffle competently, she'd be a dead cert for the job.

Liz Truss is basically a slice of ham made animate, fed on hormones in a basement for several years and shown a Margaret Thatcher compilation video on loop for the entire time. She's more robotic than Theresa May and that shouldn't even be possible. There's a dead-behind-the-eyes nature to every single thing she does - the halting way of speaking, the f.cking weird pauses and smarmy grins, the unbelievably cynical repetition of Thatcher, including how she dressed. Oh, and she's talentless.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:58 am She's more robotic than Theresa May ... the f.cking weird pauses and smarmy grins

TBF the wifi was hopeless in the NEC in 2014. That was just her buffering. If you look deep into her eyes (don't look deep into her eyes!) you can see the swirling circles of doom when it happens.

shpalman wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:27 pm

shpalman wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:21 am I'll put them in order according to https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng ... ll-results

shpalman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:08 pm Rishi Sunak 88
Penny Mordaunt 67
Liz Truss 50
Kemi Badenoch 40
Tom Tugendhat 37
Suella Braverman 32
Nadhim Zahawi 25
Jeremy Hunt 18

So now it's
Rishi Sunak - 101 (up 13)
Penny Mordaunt - 83 (up 16)
Liz Truss - 64 (up 14)
Kemi Badenoch - 49 (up 9)
Tom Tugendhat - 32 (down 5)
Suella Braverman - 27 (down 5)

So we were at
Rishi Sunak - 115
Penny Mordaunt - 82
Liz Truss - 71
Kemi Badenoch - 58
Tom Tugendhat - 31

"Badenough" obviously just managed to pick up a few letters from some of the candidates who dropped out, outperforming "Mourdaunt" there who's had that extra u for a while now and even managed to lose the other one for a moment there.

Sunak and Truss haven't picked up any letters at all, obviously having names which are simple enough to spell.