Scrutable

f.ck me, this looks like a long evening.

sheldrake wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:03 pmThat's because Corbyn haa never had a real job outside of politics. Corbyn has lied repeatedly.

Corbyn has had some jobs outside of politics: journalist (briefly) and VSO teacher, then into the trade unions which is pretty standard for those wanting to be a Labour MP, especially if you are on the left-wing of the party.

But Boris (ABdPJ) has never held down a proper job outside of politics either. He was a journalist at the Times were he was fired for lying; then picked up as a columnist on the Telegraph specifically to write Conservative-leaning articles, many of which had little relation to real life (and that was according to Chris Patten, the Conservative party chairman!) He continued at the Telegraph and Spectator until becoming an MP (Conrad Black labelled him 'ineffably duplicitous' as he promised never to become an MP), London Mayor, and then MP again.

ABdPJ has made a career out of lying repeatedly. He's also cheated on his first wife (with the woman who became his second wife), and cheated on his second wife with at least 3 (and more likely at least 5) other women. Even if Corbyn has lied, he's got nothing on ABdPJ.

Corbyn working for a trade union is a political job.

Corbyn lies all the time. It was only a few weeks since the mendacious little sh.t claimed he had proof that the conservative party was going to sell the NHS to American corporations.

sheldrake wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:27 am.

Corbyn lies all the time. It was only a few weeks since the mendacious little sh.t claimed he had proof that the conservative party was going to sell the NHS to American corporations.

That will still happen and with a majority in Parliament it will be impossible to stop.

Herainestold wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:10 am That will still happen and with a majority in Parliament it will be impossible to stop.

No this is fantasy. If Thatcher didn't even attempt this Johnson won't.

Most of the NHS privatisation that has happened in the last 30 years happened under Blair.

sheldrake wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:39 am

Herainestold wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:10 am That will still happen and with a majority in Parliament it will be impossible to stop.

No this is fantasy. If Thatcher didn't even attempt this Johnson won't.

Most of the NHS privatisation that has happened in the last 30 years happened under Blair.

^{[citation needed]}

Gfamily wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:56 am

^{[citation needed]}

Got lots more for you if you still doubt
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2 ... ust-fix-it

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... h.politics

sheldrake wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:39 am

Most of the NHS privatisation that has happened in the last 30 years happened under Blair.

Blair started it, Johnson will finish it off.

Herainestold wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:24 am

sheldrake wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:39 am

Most of the NHS privatisation that has happened in the last 30 years happened under Blair.

Blair started it, Johnson will finish it off.

The last 10 years of Tory government haven't. Johnson's first Queen's speech after the election declared an intent to put a massive budget increase for the NHS into law. Why do you think he's going to sell it (and more importantly, who on earth would want to buy it) ?

It's such a stupid myth and lefties are falling for it. Everyone's crying wolf and will look like an idiot in 5 years as a result.

The two key weaknesses for Johnson in the 2024 election will be: (a) you created a chaotic f.ck-up when we left the EU and (b) you sold/trashed the NHS.

So obviously his two key priorities will be to do neither. He's going be sensible on the EU deal and increase NHS budgets. And then in 2024 his slogan will be "Labour are scaremongering w.nkers".

He might continue to trash the criminal justice system while everyone is looking the wrong way though. Criminals, legal aid barristers, prison staff, and probation officers don't evoke the same sort of emotions as the NHS, so it is easier to cut funding for the services that they deliver or participate in.

snoozeofreason wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:06 pm He might continue to trash the criminal justice system while everyone is looking the wrong way though. Criminals, legal aid barristers, prison staff, and probation officers don't evoke the same sort of emotions as the NHS, so it is easier to cut funding for the services that they deliver or participate in.

*cough* not just barristers!

sheldrake wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.

The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.

The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.

Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/10/investig ... -11651802/

https://boris-johnson-lies.com

discovolante wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:27 pm

snoozeofreason wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:06 pm He might continue to trash the criminal justice system while everyone is looking the wrong way though. Criminals, legal aid barristers, prison staff, and probation officers don't evoke the same sort of emotions as the NHS, so it is easier to cut funding for the services that they deliver or participate in.

*cough* not just barristers!

Not forgetting of course, solicitors, and all others who work for the increasingly meager rewards offered by the legal aid system. Does that cover it?

Oops, wrong bit. Drinking. f.ckup. Can happen to anybody. Feel free to delete, laugh or any combination.

And I'll f.ckin have you all. come on.

Could Corbyn have really been as stupid as this, or was he actually trying to sabotage Labour?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/sta ... 66626?s=20

And now Roy Hattersley wades in, a veteran of the front line of 1983.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... much-worse

He points out that militant were basically a few outliers, while now ...

No Militant sympathisers were employed in the Labour party headquarters or in its regional offices, and no major trade union leader supported Militant’s aims. Now full-time officials openly boast of their Momentum membership.

As for the dreaded centrists...

Labour MPs are notorious for their reluctance to fight the ideological battle for democratic socialism. The common response to the complaint that they have watched, but not opposed, the triumphant progress of the far left is the claim that at least they “stayed and fought”. More often than not, they stayed without fighting.

Ouch. I guess they would say the membership were against them, but then again, they left the challenge to Owen Smith, a complete nobody. Even now, there is no sign of an early challenge from the more heavyweight non-Corbynite MPs, while head office and Momentum carry on with anointing Long-Bailey.

This Twitter thread seems to confirm some insane tactics by Labour

https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/sta ... 66626?s=21

Stranger Mouse wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:26 am This Twitter thread seems to confirm some insane tactics by Labour

https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/sta ... 66626?s=21

My apologies - I just saw this posted up thread. Doh!

snoozeofreason wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:04 pm

discovolante wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:27 pm

snoozeofreason wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:06 pm He might continue to trash the criminal justice system while everyone is looking the wrong way though. Criminals, legal aid barristers, prison staff, and probation officers don't evoke the same sort of emotions as the NHS, so it is easier to cut funding for the services that they deliver or participate in.

*cough* not just barristers!

Not forgetting of course, solicitors, and all others who work for the increasingly meager rewards offered by the legal aid system. Does that cover it?

Haha yep, that'll do but yes I think a lot of really nasty stuff is going to come in by stealth. That's not new but I am worried by it anyway.

murmur wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pmWelcome to Sheldrake World, official language Newspeak.

Actually I think the first two paragraphs are bang on.

Nobody is going to give half a sh.t in a few months’ time who was for or against a people’s vote in 2019 though.

nekomatic wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 am

murmur wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pmWelcome to Sheldrake World, official language Newspeak.

Actually I think the first two paragraphs are bang on.

Nobody is going to give half a sh.t in a few months’ time who was for or against a people’s vote in 2019 though.

As long as I'm allowed to continue to laugh at the door hitting Flint's arse on her way out.

nekomatic wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 am

murmur wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pmWelcome to Sheldrake World, official language Newspeak.

Actually I think the first two paragraphs are bang on.

Nobody is going to give half a sh.t in a few months’ time who was for or against a people’s vote in 2019 though.

Oh yes they will. Labour voters in the North and the Midlands will remember exactly which London-based w.nkers lined up to flush their referendum vote down the toilet for a long time. You watch.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.

So somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?

Somebody who wins on a vision and enacts it in ways that honour that, if not the exact wording of the manifesto.

plebian wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:54 pm

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.

So somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?

Somebody who wins on a vision and enacts it in ways that honour that, if not the exact wording of the manifesto.

Yeah. Manifestos shouldn't include detailed policies. They should contain high level goals and potential pathways to get there, but not line by line prescription of legislative policies.

Obamacare being a case in point. What was enacted was not what was in Obama's preelection policy, because it had to be changed to get past the right wing Democrats in the Senate and House.