Scrutable

One issue is that they think that they're actually fooling people, as opposed to talking them along for the ride just to see what happens, or to see other people get fleeced.

dyqik wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:09 pm

GeenDienst wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:12 pm This is an odd one. Story today that the NHS-give-away-to-the-Trumpies negotiation documents, in the news of late, appear (not proven) to originate from a known Russki fake news spreading organisation.

Now, if these were fakes, I think we'd know by now, the Tories could have just pointed and laughed. So it doesn't look like a disinformation campaign. But why would an organisation like this seek to undermine the Tories?

Russia's interest is in unstable Western governments that can't interfere, and in undermining the faith in government institutions, not in supporting one side or the other.

Yes. The leak could also be intended to undermine the US UK relationship.

Funny old world where the election is being conducted with the least Trumpy side using true facts released into public domain illegally and circulated (probably) by a fake news outfit run (probably) by a hostile power with form for subverting elections.

And presumably, the leak could have been in the USA, if this document was circulated on both sides. Wonder if that could show up an interesting relationship over there, if true and ever found out.

We already know that the same people are advising the GOP and the Tories, and every so often they try to bring a bog standard US campaign to the UK, where it clangs into the ground horribly. There was an attempt to bring the US government interference in women's health to the UK a year or two ago, which funnily enough got nowhere very much except to get Chope nominated again for CotD.

Then there's Cambridge Analytica and their wider ecosystem, who worked for both Trump and Vote Leave.

The specious and mendacious attempt by the Tories to get Ch 4 slapped for empty chairing Johnson and Farage with ice sculptures during the leaders' climate debate has been emphatically thrown out by Ofcom.

no caricatures, though:

...the decision to replace Johnson – and the Brexit party leader Nigel Farage – with an ice sculpture did not breach due impartiality rules. Ofcom concluded this was a “relatively low-key” way of empty-chairing the politicians – hinting it could have taken a different view if, as had been suggested in advance, the ice sculptures had been carved in the shape of the politicians.

dyqik wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:09 pm

GeenDienst wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:12 pm This is an odd one. Story today that the NHS-give-away-to-the-Trumpies negotiation documents, in the news of late, appear (not proven) to originate from a known Russki fake news spreading organisation.

Now, if these were fakes, I think we'd know by now, the Tories could have just pointed and laughed. So it doesn't look like a disinformation campaign. But why would an organisation like this seek to undermine the Tories?

Russia's interest is in unstable Western governments that can't interfere, and in undermining the faith in government institutions, not in supporting one side or the other.

Exactly, stealing your enemy's car is a bonus, but setting it on fire is still a win

So we can conclude that the Russians have interfered in this election.

GeenDienst wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:00 pm So we can conclude that the Russians have interfered in this election.

If only there was some sort of report into possible Russian interference in our elections which may have highlighted the issue in advance and possibly suggested some counter-measures.

Little waster wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:24 pm

GeenDienst wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:00 pm So we can conclude that the Russians have interfered in this election.

If only there was some sort of report into possible Russian interference in our elections which may have highlighted the issue in advance and possibly suggested some counter-measures.

That's just crazy talk, if something like that existed but was suppressed there'd be riots in the street and the leader and party responsible would be utterly annihilated. The press would never let a government get away with anything like that, it would be utter dereliction of duty and make us the laughing stock of the Western World.

Seems Corbyn visited my home town (Whitby). I'd seen some advance publicity for the visit but assumed it was a joke as Whitby is ... not an obvious Labour target. But it would appear from Facebook posts that he was really there. Locals seem surprisingly positive though one tw.t has posted a composite picture of Corbyn handing voting cards to people getting out of a rubber dinghy.

My son has pointed out that, rather depressingly, a tactical vote in or constituency might be tory to make sure brexit dont get in. I think we're saved by the Brexit Party scheme to retain candidate payments no oppose Tories, but it is an unpleasant thought.

I had two leaflets through my door today, one from the Brexit Party and one from Lisabela Zxywhiddm Marschild of the Space Navies Party.

Flicking through them it was clear one was the product of a deranged mind spouting fantastical policies with no basis in the real world reflecting an entire delusional worldview based on a sad monomaniacal obsession with something irrelevant to 99.9% of the voters in the area.

The other one suggested investing heavily in building Excelsior-class Star Destroyers to ward off the imminent Invasion of the Space Centipedes*

The Tory candidate has an address 300 miles away Shirley you'd think they could find someone a bit more local willing to stand in as a paper candidate?



*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

Little waster wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm
*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

Where do they stand on the compulsory serving of asparagus for breakfast?

Little waster wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm I had two leaflets through my door today, one from the Brexit Party and one from Lisabela Zxywhiddm Marschild of the Space Navies Party.

Flicking through them it was clear one was the product of a deranged mind spouting fantastical policies with no basis in the real world reflecting an entire delusional worldview based on a sad monomaniacal obsession with something irrelevant to 99.9% of the voters in the area.

The other one suggested investing heavily in building Excelsior-class Star Destroyers to ward off the imminent Invasion of the Space Centipedes*

The Tory candidate has an address 300 miles away Shirley you'd think they could find someone a bit more local willing to stand in as a paper candidate?



*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

Excuse the link to 'red top' tabloid, but I quite like the fact that several of the policies of the Monster Raving Looney Party are now enacted legislation.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-mon ... ty-5644717

Went to a hustings last night and still torn, although sadly the Tory candidate wasn't able to persuade me with her various pronouncements such as 'if we have another Brexit referendum we might as well be living in Pyongyang at this point', 'I am certainly not racist, I have friends of all races, religions and creeds' and 'it would be ridiculous for Scotland to be independent. The UK is one island with one language'.

Might be a vote for the SNP though.

Imrael wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:45 pm My son has pointed out that, rather depressingly, a tactical vote in or constituency might be tory to make sure brexit dont get in. I think we're saved by the Brexit Party scheme to retain candidate payments no oppose Tories, but it is an unpleasant thought.

Erm, that doesn't make any sense though. Seeing as you don't want either the Tories or the Brexit party in (presumably because Brexit, but could also be because obvs), a vote for either isn't tactical, it's just daft. The tactical vote is for a party that wants to do different things from the tories or the brexit party

P.J. Denyer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:14 pm

Little waster wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm
*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

Where do they stand on the compulsory serving of asparagus for breakfast?

Only in English asparagus season, shirley?

Little waster wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm I had two leaflets through my door today, one from the Brexit Party and one from Lisabela Zxywhiddm Marschild of the Space Navies Party.

Flicking through them it was clear one was the product of a deranged mind spouting fantastical policies with no basis in the real world reflecting an entire delusional worldview based on a sad monomaniacal obsession with something irrelevant to 99.9% of the voters in the area.

The other one suggested investing heavily in building Excelsior-class Star Destroyers to ward off the imminent Invasion of the Space Centipedes*

The Tory candidate has an address 300 miles away Shirley you'd think they could find someone a bit more local willing to stand in as a paper candidate?



*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

I wish.
Living in one of the top 20 safest seats in the country, I haven't even had any leaflets from any party. Certainly not any door knockers. I believe 4 parties are standing but I couldn't tell you who. I'll find out at the ballot and pick one (almost at random) as it will make no difference.

I had two leaflets, one tory and one labour, in a very safe tory seat.

Labour one didn't mention Corbyn or Brexit. Tory one didn't mention Johnson or Brexit.

The earth gods give their view on JRM.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:58 am I had two leaflets, one tory and one labour, in a very safe tory seat.

Labour one didn't mention Corbyn or Brexit. Tory one didn't mention Johnson or Brexit.

The Brexit Party one from yesterday looks like a generic one which was nationally produced; lots of pics of Farage, a nonsensical claim of where an imaginary £100bn/year Brexit bonus (sic) would be spent, a fascistic approach to parliamentary democracy and an openly-racist immigration policy which ironically we wouldn't even need to leave the EU to implement (thus presenting the complete range of actual BP policies). Nothing at all about the local* candidate, what they could do for the constituency or even any mention of the constituency at all, it could be (and probably is) stuck through any letterbox in the country.

The Labour and LD ones fell through the letterbox 5 mins ago (the dog bypassed them to chew on one of my professional magazines ).

The Labour incumbent has lots of pics of her looking grumpily at potholes, wearing high-viz jackets and holding up bits of paper in parliament, the usual. No mention of Corbyn and Brexit gets a single line as the final pledge in a list of five, promising a "final say" without taking a position.

The LD who is a local councillor has gone very Swinson-heavy which is probably a mistake given her own track record and how abysmal Swinson actually is, Corbyn and Johnson feature more than she does herself.

Sadly no dodgy bar chart but it does contain this claim "Recent polls show support for the Liberal Democrats is now at record levels" which I think we can file under "G" for Geet-Massive Whoppers. The overall theme is ABL which feeds into my own suspicion that if it comes down to a choice between enabling a hard-right Conservative government or moderating a broad progressive Coalition, the LDs will once again choose Rees-Mogg and his ilk in exchange for a nebulous promise of a rigged referendum, at a time of Johnson's choosing, on the question that he wants, in the same manner as the AV stitch-up.





*in this case from only a 100 miles away

Our leaflet from the Tories made a big point about how our Tory candidate cares about the NHS in her constituency, and that she was promising improved investment for Hospital X.

Thing is - Hospital X is in a neighbouring constituency... 20 miles away. But then she doesn't live here, so probably doesn't know that.

LD leaflet was all very swish and unmemorable.

Lab leaflet was memorable, but that was more to do with the fact that every image was printed at a crap resolution which made it look out of focus.

I've followed the tactical vote route in the hope of kicking out the incumbent Tory - won't work though, particularly whilst Lab and LD contest the seat, one of them might have a shot, but two splits the anti-tory vote.

Our incumbent Tory's leaflet had a photo of him standing outside a primary school - who now say that they never gave permission to appear in election material, in fact he's never visited, so it seems he just rocked up outside to grab a pic. It's also somewhat ironic as he's been the target of lots of anger the last 12-18 months over massive reductions to schools' funding in the area and he chickened out of turning up to meetings about it. The letters he's been sending out are all full of very. short. sentences. about how the Tories will "get things done". e.g. "you're frustrated. I get it. I'm frustrated too."

Labour's was reasonably good, fairly bland. Candidate lives in next constituency along, but that's an order of magnitude closer than LW's examples...

LD's were all about canning Brexit.

Haven't had any from the Brexit party or from some weird "local" party that sprang into being just before the election.

GeenDienst wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:12 pm This is an odd one. Story today that the NHS-give-away-to-the-Trumpies negotiation documents, in the news of late, appear (not proven) to originate from a known Russki fake news spreading organisation.

Now, if these were fakes, I think we'd know by now, the Tories could have just pointed and laughed. So it doesn't look like a disinformation campaign. But why would an organisation like this seek to undermine the Tories?

Reddit also blames Russian attempts to manipulate the UK election: https://www.reddit.com/r/redditsecurity ... on_reddit/

science_fox wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:02 am

Little waster wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm I had two leaflets through my door today, one from the Brexit Party and one from Lisabela Zxywhiddm Marschild of the Space Navies Party.

Flicking through them it was clear one was the product of a deranged mind spouting fantastical policies with no basis in the real world reflecting an entire delusional worldview based on a sad monomaniacal obsession with something irrelevant to 99.9% of the voters in the area.

The other one suggested investing heavily in building Excelsior-class Star Destroyers to ward off the imminent Invasion of the Space Centipedes*

The Tory candidate has an address 300 miles away Shirley you'd think they could find someone a bit more local willing to stand in as a paper candidate?



*this is sadly not true their actual leaflet merely outlined the crazy suggestions of increasing spending on education and increasing unemployment benefits and pensions. When will these joke candidates learn not to waste everyone's time with their lunatic ideas ...

I wish.
Living in one of the top 20 safest seats in the country, I haven't even had any leaflets from any party. Certainly not any door knockers. I believe 4 parties are standing but I couldn't tell you who. I'll find out at the ballot and pick one (almost at random) as it will make no difference.

I'm in the 13th safest and I've had Con, Lib and Lab leaflets. I thought about keeping the Conservative one in case there is a post Brexit toilet paper shortage but decided it wasn't worth the risk since there would probably be a shortage of antibiotics at the same time.