Scrutable

this shockwave appears to have reached Cyprus

Grumble wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm Who the f.ck stores fireworks in the same warehouse as a shipload of ammonium nitrate? If it wasn’t the cause of such devastation that would almost be comical.

Grumble wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm Who the f.ck stores fireworks in the same warehouse as a shipload of ammonium nitrate? If it wasn’t the cause of such devastation that would almost be comical.

bmforre wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:36 pm

Grumble wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm Who the f.ck stores fireworks in the same warehouse as a shipload of ammonium nitrate? If it wasn’t the cause of such devastation that would almost be comical.

Folks who have a warehouse for chemicals for rent?

jimbob wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:32 pm
That's astoundingly - or should that be "beancounterishly"? bm question - stupid.

Grumble wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:45 pm Edited by bmforre:

Folks who have a warehouse for chemicals for rent should have some basic idea of how to store chemicals ...

Grumble wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm Who the f.ck stores fireworks in the same warehouse as a shipload of ammonium nitrate? If it wasn’t the cause of such devastation that would almost be comical.

Boustrophedon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:39 pm As recorded elsewhere on this forum, I got involved in a stupid online argument about ammonium nitrate and its ability to detonate in the pure state. It seems to be a common belief that since ammonium nitrate is an "oxidiser" it must have a fuel present to explode and no pointing at counter examples will convince them otherwise. Given the casual use and storage of ammonium nitrate in farming I have no doubt that this belief persists in health and safety officers working in storage facilities the world over.

I read somewhere* that the ease with which AM can be detonated is greatly improved by the inclusion of bubbles in the prills and that AM used in slurry explosives and ANFO is deliberately made to include bubbles, whereas fertiliser grade is made without.

*ETA. See Wiki on ANFO.

FlammableFlower wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:43 am Trump managed to stick his oar in declaring it was a bomb... then he claimed various generals told him it probably was... then he claimed it was lots of explosive devices. Can someone find a basement for him to sit in out of the way?

PeteB wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:20 pm I was just wondering about the death toll, surely it must be in the thousands ?

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am

Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.

FredM wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:29 am Good article on the Beirut explosion here.

Boustrophedon wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 am

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am

Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.

Is it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.

Martin Y wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:57 pm Also from there, the video from someone on the roof of the building at the north end of the grain silo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJIA56 ... e=emb_logo

You can see that they're filming the initial fire, seemingly involving fireworks, happening in the north end of the same warehouse building which is eventually the source of the main detonation, as the crater is centred on what used to be its south end. There's a dramatic explosion at the end of that video, but it's certainly not the main event as they're only a few tens of metres away and the building they're standing on was entirely destroyed. So this seems to be an earlier explosion in the fireworks store and they must have got the hell out after that for the phone footage to have survived the final blast.

bmforre wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:02 am

FredM wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:29 am Good article on the Beirut explosion here.

Excellent. Thanks for posting this.

Woodchopper wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:23 pm

Boustrophedon wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 am

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am

Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.

Is it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.

A detonator is only required if someone wants to have control over the time of the explosion. Which would be the case with a bomb or industrial use. Ammonium nitrate will also explode if its heated to a high temperature. So there have been ammonium nitrate explosions when it was burnt by an intense fire. For example, in Tianjin "An investigation found that stocks of flammable nitrocellulose - a chemical used in nail polish - had caught fire and spread to illegal stores of the fertiliser ammonium nitrate. The blasts that were triggered ripped through an industrial port area in the city, destroying buildings, shipping containers and thousands of new cars."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37927158

Woodchopper wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:23 pm

Boustrophedon wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 am

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am

Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.

Is it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.

A detonator is only required if someone wants to have control over the time of the explosion. Which would be the case with a bomb or industrial use. Ammonium nitrate will also explode if its heated to a high temperature. So there have been ammonium nitrate explosions when it was burnt by an intense fire. For example, in Tianjin "An investigation found that stocks of flammable nitrocellulose - a chemical used in nail polish - had caught fire and spread to illegal stores of the fertiliser ammonium nitrate. The blasts that were triggered ripped through an industrial port area in the city, destroying buildings, shipping containers and thousands of new cars."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37927158