Scrutable

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 am I would urge anyone, when they see someone using the term 'virtue signalling' on any kind of social media, to issue a brief reminder that 'virtue signalling' is what terrible people call human decency, so they can pretend it's not them who has the problem when they look in the mirror.

Anyone who uses 'virtue signaling' is virtue signaling, because of its use as a right wing perjoritive used to dismiss argument. It shows off that you are a good right winger who hates the SJWs, with very little cost to whoever said it.

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm It's annoying that the term is abused so liberally, because it would be nice to have a term for people trying to appear virtuous without actually being so - eg corporations with relatively poor attitudes to their own minority ethnic workers posting white text on black image files showing their supposed support of black lives matter - but what Rashford is doing here is straightforwardly being virtuous. Likewise, doing the right thing when people can see is better described as setting a good example. I wish we could have a term for the hollow version without it being dominated by a..eholes who hate compassion, but that's where we are at.

For corporations, greenwashing is a common term for environmental hypocrisy and a term I knew about before virtue signaling. I have also seen Blackwashing, pinkwashing (applied to both breast cancer and LGBT issues) and purplewashing (relating to feminism). I'm pretty sure you don't have to use a colour.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:27 am A very minor point to say that this was a motion, not a bill, and if it had passed it would've not had any legal effect, just political (the Govt would've caved if it'd've passed though).

That's an important point, so thanks for making it

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:44 am I don't know how many times we have to pick up the baton, but if we can at the moment, we have to. There's a half term coming up where children are going to go hungry . We can debate how appalling this government is later, we can talk about the political action needed to change things on a governmental level later. Right now, simple practical measures are needed so I donated to FareShare this morning: https://fareshare.org.uk/donate/?fbclid ... hsdWUY52QM.

This is another important point. There's the need to fight this particular fire, and then there's the need to work out how to stop future fires from starting. I think most of my frustration is that this government is a bunch of arsonists so we keep fighting deliberately-set fires and never get the chance to work out how to stop the future fires (kicking out the tories would be a good start there). I'm in an unenviable position of having no disposable income so feel particularly incapable of helping. I've just emailed my local comp/secondary school (I don't know what they're called any more) offering to do some volunteer tutoring though I don't know if they'll take me up on the offer. But hopefully they do and I can help at least one kid do a bit better in their exams.

monkey wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 am I would urge anyone, when they see someone using the term 'virtue signalling' on any kind of social media, to issue a brief reminder that 'virtue signalling' is what terrible people call human decency, so they can pretend it's not them who has the problem when they look in the mirror.

Anyone who uses 'virtue signaling' is virtue signaling, because of its use as a right wing perjoritive used to dismiss argument. It shows off that you are a good right winger who hates the SJWs, with very little cost to whoever said it.

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm It's annoying that the term is abused so liberally, because it would be nice to have a term for people trying to appear virtuous without actually being so - eg corporations with relatively poor attitudes to their own minority ethnic workers posting white text on black image files showing their supposed support of black lives matter - but what Rashford is doing here is straightforwardly being virtuous. Likewise, doing the right thing when people can see is better described as setting a good example. I wish we could have a term for the hollow version without it being dominated by a..eholes who hate compassion, but that's where we are at.

For corporations, greenwashing is a common term for environmental hypocrisy and a term I knew about before virtue signaling. I have also seen Blackwashing, pinkwashing (applied to both breast cancer and LGBT issues) and purplewashing (relating to feminism). I'm pretty sure you don't have to use a colour.

Well they obviously derive from whitewashing, so I’d say it does have to be a colour

Fishnut wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:17 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:27 am A very minor point to say that this was a motion, not a bill, and if it had passed it would've not had any legal effect, just political (the Govt would've caved if it'd've passed though).

That's an important point, so thanks for making it

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:44 am I don't know how many times we have to pick up the baton, but if we can at the moment, we have to. There's a half term coming up where children are going to go hungry . We can debate how appalling this government is later, we can talk about the political action needed to change things on a governmental level later. Right now, simple practical measures are needed so I donated to FareShare this morning: https://fareshare.org.uk/donate/?fbclid ... hsdWUY52QM.

This is another important point. There's the need to fight this particular fire, and then there's the need to work out how to stop future fires from starting. I think most of my frustration is that this government is a bunch of arsonists so we keep fighting deliberately-set fires and never get the chance to work out how to stop the future fires (kicking out the tories would be a good start there). I'm in an unenviable position of having no disposable income so feel particularly incapable of helping. I've just emailed my local comp/secondary school (I don't know what they're called any more) offering to do some volunteer tutoring though I don't know if they'll take me up on the offer. But hopefully they do and I can help at least one kid do a bit better in their exams.

Regarding the bold bit, there wasn't an intent to shame or make anyone feel bad (aside from the Tories, obviously), and I'm now worried it sounded like that. If it did, I apologise.

Also, your government-as-arsonists metaphor I think is spot on and I shall be stealing it for future use.

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:41 pm Regarding the bold bit, there wasn't an intent to shame or make anyone feel bad (aside from the Tories, obviously), and I'm now worried it sounded like that. If it did, I apologise.

No apology needed, at least certainly not to me.

I wasn't trying to guilt anyone with disposable income, rather it struck me that those of us without it still want to do something, so thought it worth highlighting the potential for volunteering. Plus it's not often there's problems where "bung a few quid in" are the solution but this is one of them and it's so frustrating that our government refuses to do it.

Vertigowooyay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:41 pm your government-as-arsonists metaphor I think is spot on and I shall be stealing it for future use.

Steal away!

veravista wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:22 am This morning my post was deleted.

On the grounds of being "political", no doubt.

JellyandJackson wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:47 am In terms of the what to do, we’re in a position to be able to get some extra bits at each shop which I drop off at the local food bank donation point every few weeks. I am going to email my MP, for all the bl..dy good it’ll do, given she posted this. https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/12 ... 29?lang=en

I don't suppose she supplies any evidence that this is actually happening? Reminds me of Jobbins's assertion that the proles just spend their benefits on fags, 50" TVs and Sky subscriptions.

I freely admit to being actually and absolutely unable to help anyone, aside from perhaps sending emails, I'm in isolation, skint as all can be and focussing entirely on my own mental health right now.

I don't feel entitled to offer an opinion on charity and immediate future, or how to get rid of (I cannot bring myself to say any name for them, even an insult*) and I feel basically helpless although, thankfully, we don't have children and both of our jobs are (insert superstitious gesture here) relatively safe. My own contribution, as humble as it is, is helping individual people in a small way through my job.


* Such is the utter contempt and hatred I hold for them.

nezumi wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:30 pm I freely admit to being actually and absolutely unable to help anyone, aside from perhaps sending emails, I'm in isolation, skint as all can be and focussing entirely on my own mental health right now.

I don't feel entitled to offer an opinion on charity and immediate future, or how to get rid of (I cannot bring myself to say any name for them, even an insult*) and I feel basically helpless although, thankfully, we don't have children and both of our jobs are (insert superstitious gesture here) relatively safe. My own contribution, as humble as it is, is helping individual people in a small way through my job.


* Such is the utter contempt and hatred I hold for them.

Well, doing a job that helps individuals is pretty good, you spend a lot of time doing it. There shouldn't really be any expectation to do things for others if you need to focus on all of your energy on looking after yourself.

An aside that may or may not be of interest:

In US schools, low income pupils get free lunch and sometimes breakfast, paid for (I think) by federal funds. Many schools are currently closed because of Covid. In my local district, they are distributing free meals, including dinners as well as the usual breakfasts and lunches, for pickup at several of the schools and from strategically dispatched school buses. Free to anyone, not just those officially qualified for the usual program, no questions asked. From local funds, at least the dinners.

I have heard precisely zero objection to this from anyone locally, no matter how right wing. It's interesting to me how some things are viewed ideologically in some places, and just aren't in other places.

JQH wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:28 pm

JellyandJackson wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:47 am In terms of the what to do, we’re in a position to be able to get some extra bits at each shop which I drop off at the local food bank donation point every few weeks. I am going to email my MP, for all the bl..dy good it’ll do, given she posted this. https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/12 ... 29?lang=en

I don't suppose she supplies any evidence that this is actually happening? Reminds me of Jobbins's assertion that the proles just spend their benefits on fags, 50" TVs and Sky subscriptions.

No, she didn’t. It was all very much “sorry to hear that this is happening...” and nothing more. She was challenged on Twitter, and even in the comments of the online version of the local rag, which was pleasing. Won’t change anything, though.

Do you think Johnson and Cummings retired for the evening yesterday thinking "Ha, we played a blinder on this one"?

For a supposedly populist and classically educated leader, Johnson’s not really remembered the bread part of bread and circuses.

.

Wasn't Thatcher the one who removed free milk from schools? (I seem to recall the taunt/slogan: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher!")

McDonalds to offer 1000000 free meals to “families in need”.
https://twitter.com/mcdonaldsuk/status/ ... 94593?s=21

I wouldn’t rule out a business reasoning but still, it’s striking how the fast food giant gets the messaging better than the government.

Martin_B wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:09 am Wasn't Thatcher the one who removed free milk from schools? (I seem to recall the taunt/slogan: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher!")

Yes, while she was minister for education during the Heath administration in the early 70s.

Woodchopper wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:54 am

Martin_B wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:09 am Wasn't Thatcher the one who removed free milk from schools? (I seem to recall the taunt/slogan: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher!")

Yes, while she was minister for education during the Heath administration in the early 70s.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education ... s_and_milk

In 1968 Edward Short, the Labour Secretary of State for Education and Science, withdrew free milk from secondary schools. His successor, Conservative Margaret Thatcher withdrew free school milk from children over seven in 1971, earning her (among her enemies) the nickname 'Thatcher, the Milk Snatcher'. Shirley Williams abolished school milk for children under seven in 1977.

I remember getting milk in school but I'm not sure how I remember that since I was born in 1975.

Woodchopper wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:54 am

Martin_B wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:09 am Wasn't Thatcher the one who removed free milk from schools? (I seem to recall the taunt/slogan: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher!")

Yes, while she was minister for education during the Heath administration in the early 70s.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education ... s_and_milk

In 1968 Edward Short, the Labour Secretary of State for Education and Science, withdrew free milk from secondary schools. His successor, Conservative Margaret Thatcher withdrew free school milk from children over seven in 1971, earning her (among her enemies) the nickname 'Thatcher, the Milk Snatcher'. Shirley Williams abolished school milk for children under seven in 1977.

I remember getting milk in school but I'm not sure how I remember that since I was born in 1975.

shpalman wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:49 am

Woodchopper wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:54 am

Martin_B wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:09 am Wasn't Thatcher the one who removed free milk from schools? (I seem to recall the taunt/slogan: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher!")

Yes, while she was minister for education during the Heath administration in the early 70s.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education ... s_and_milk

In 1968 Edward Short, the Labour Secretary of State for Education and Science, withdrew free milk from secondary schools. His successor, Conservative Margaret Thatcher withdrew free school milk from children over seven in 1971, earning her (among her enemies) the nickname 'Thatcher, the Milk Snatcher'. Shirley Williams abolished school milk for children under seven in 1977.

I remember getting milk in school but I'm not sure how I remember that since I was born in 1975.

I was born in '73 (October), and I'm fairly sure I didn't go to school as a 3 year old (even if nearly 4), so the first term I could have been at school would be Spring '78. But I remember having milk at school, too. However, I was at a church-assisted primary, so they may have paid for milk.

My kids have had free milk in school in the last few years, up to age 7. I don’t know if that’s a LEA thing or what.

As far as I know some LEAs continued to pay for it themselves. I remember school milk in primary school, which I went to in the late 70s.

I started school in 80/81 and got free milk for the first year or two.

Grumble wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:09 pm For a supposedly populist and classically educated leader, Johnson’s not really remembered the bread part of bread and circuses.

Yes. This is what I don't understand.

Johnson is a populist who ran as a populist called Boris and was elected by a country wanting a populist.

There are easy and obvious tricks to reinforce your populist status. When the proles ask for trivially easy things - a bit of food for kids being one - you not only give it, you go out there to hand it out yourself. You invent the Boris Breakfast and get archbishops praising you.

Always rescue the dog lost on Salisbury Plain.

Little England likes a bit of puritanical flagellation of the dissolute poor - faces must be eaten by leopards - but at the right time and against the right targets. Which is not during a pandemic and not against (white) kids. Dole scroungers can be punished in future years, masked by earlier faux generosity.

Exactly the same applies to Trump. In a parallel universe he's coasting to an easy win, following his generous tax cuts, healthcare and Covid handouts.

I wonder if Johnson's position on this is basically down to the narcissist's failure to empathise. Especially from a man who barely gives a sh.t about his own kids, let alone other people's.

See also: misfits and weirdos.