Scrutable

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:51 pm So we need to think of a variety of non fossil fuel derived materials that we can substitute for metals.

Steel isn’t inherently fossil fuel derived as my first post in this thread shows. There’s nothing fossil fuely about iron ore, or any ore.

shpalman wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:05 pm I vaguely remember there being something on No Such Thing As A Fish (would have been an episode from about a year ago) about spoons made of different metals contributing to the taste of the food.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -aluminium

There was a recent Infinite Monkey Cage about cooking that touched on this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rtyy

shpalman wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:05 pm I vaguely remember there being something on No Such Thing As A Fish (would have been an episode from about a year ago) about spoons made of different metals contributing to the taste of the food.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -aluminium

Also got mentioned on the Infinite Monkey Cage episode on Food Science.

shpalman wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:05 pm I vaguely remember there being something on No Such Thing As A Fish (would have been an episode from about a year ago) about spoons made of different metals contributing to the taste of the food.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -aluminium

Might be episode 318.

Grumble wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:26 pm

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:51 pm So we need to think of a variety of non fossil fuel derived materials that we can substitute for metals.

Steel isn’t inherently fossil fuel derived as my first post in this thread shows. There’s nothing fossil fuely about iron ore, or any ore.

I realize that. But we need coal to make it, until we figure out a better process. So in the interim we should limit its use

I wonder if anyone will ever figure out a way to make steel without coal.

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:44 pm

Grumble wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:26 pm

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:51 pm So we need to think of a variety of non fossil fuel derived materials that we can substitute for metals.

Steel isn’t inherently fossil fuel derived as my first post in this thread shows. There’s nothing fossil fuely about iron ore, or any ore.

I realize that. But we need coal to make it, until we figure out a better process. So in the interim we should limit its use

I think the point is that there are processes that don't need coal - in that the iron ores can be reduced via Hydrogen, the energy can be provided via electricity, and the carbon can be biochar etc.

It's just that the use of coal - or metcoal - works on an 'it'll do more than one bits of that' basis.

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:44 pm

Grumble wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:26 pm

Herainestold wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:51 pm So we need to think of a variety of non fossil fuel derived materials that we can substitute for metals.

Steel isn’t inherently fossil fuel derived as my first post in this thread shows. There’s nothing fossil fuely about iron ore, or any ore.

I realize that. But we need coal to make it, until we figure out a better process. So in the interim we should limit its use

The production of steel is one of the most optimised industrial processes in the world. That's because everyone has been trying to produce better processes for the last ~200 years and even small percentage increases in optimising the process can produce massive economic benefits. The British steel industry almost died because they concentrated on production (and short term gain) while other steel making countries (especially, IIRC, Japan, USA, Italy, Brazil) stayed innovating and could then undercut British steel.

Thyssunkrup are ahead of the game and have been actively experimenting with using H2 in steel making since 2019. They fitted out a blast furnace with a H2 feed and could make steel with it. Scaling up and cost issues still need to be resolved, but their press releases are full of bumpf about securing H2 supplies.

And if they succeed then the greenification of steel moves on one step to the next problem; producing huge quantities of hydrogen with low carbon processes.