Scrutable

jimbob wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:41 am

bjn wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:32 am The Brexiters will denounce any minor accommodation as betrayal or some such, which will be widely pushed by the likes of the Daily Mail. Hopefully some sanity will prevail and those voices will be increasingly ignored.

Which is why the Brexiteers need to be rejected massively at the ballot box

And conversely why, if they're not rejected massively, we'll know the country hasn't reached rock bottom yet.

bjn wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:15 am You can start the process very small, “Why wouldn’t you want pet passports?”, “Why wouldn’t you want bands to gig in the EU?” and so on. Do that incrementally till the Boomers die off some more, then sign up to the larger treaties. Slippery slope it.

Oh, are we back to Blame it on the Boomers? Sorry, didn't get the memo.

In any event there is little evidence to support the Boomers for Brexit meme. Exit polls didn't ask voters' ages.

JQH wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:14 pm

bjn wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:15 am You can start the process very small, “Why wouldn’t you want pet passports?”, “Why wouldn’t you want bands to gig in the EU?” and so on. Do that incrementally till the Boomers die off some more, then sign up to the larger treaties. Slippery slope it.

Oh, are we back to Blame it on the Boomers? Sorry, didn't get the memo.

In any event there is little evidence to support the Boomers for Brexit meme. Exit polls didn't ask voters' ages.

Ashcroft Surveys provided some evidence


From https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/03/a ... m-and-why/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... ecca.12388

From the Introduction

In its June 2016 referendum, the UK voted to leave the European Union. One clear pattern in the returns is a positive correlation between age and the probability of voting Leave. 25% of those aged 18–24 voted Leave, for example, compared to 56% of those who were 50 and older

YouGov aligns with this

Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave.

Misses out a rather crucial figure - the percentage who didn't vote at all.

Gfamily wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:17 pm Ashcroft Surveys provided some evidence

Thanks for the moron-image. None of us would have understood the percentages without stick figures to help us out.

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:34 pm

Gfamily wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:17 pm Ashcroft Surveys provided some evidence

Thanks for the moron-image. None of us would have understood the percentages without stick figures to help us out.

Can you explain it in terms of ice cream instead?

I've had to explain to this forum the concept on an average. So not surprised ice cream logistics was beyond many.

The figure clearly shows it's Generation X and Boomers united for Brexit.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... xit-17504/

And in case anyone struggles to understand what Generation X is - here's a "moron-image"

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:09 pm I've had to explain to this forum the concept on an average. So not surprised ice cream logistics was beyond many.

I'm sorry, I read the moron image post as being sarcastic, but it seems you were actually genuine in your thanks, because you think we're all morons

Anyone who believes in the concept of Boomers or Generation X is a moron. Lumping humans into a huge aggregation is the definition of the moron class.

bob sterman wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:28 pm The figure clearly shows it's Generation X and Boomers united for Brexit.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... xit-17504/

And in case anyone struggles to understand what Generation X is - here's a "moron-image"

Very interesting graphic. Reveals how, over two short decades, this subspecies developed longitudinal dimorphism of the upper limbs, similar to the fiddler crabs. The resulting loss of balance appears to have led, among some individuals, to the evolution of large 'thigh gaps', traditionally viewed as indicators of reproductive prowess and hence sexual desirability, notwithstanding that they are now mostly 70-year-old, right-wing shitheads.

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:48 pm Anyone who believes in the concept of Boomers or Generation X is a moron. Lumping humans into a huge aggregation is the definition of the moron class.

Is the "moron class" a huge aggregation???

Biggest of the lot.

lpm wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:48 pm Anyone who believes in the concept of Boomers or Generation X is a moron. Lumping humans into a huge aggregation is the definition of the moron class.

Ha. #Notallboomers

It can be useful and interesting to look at demographics and opinion (and other things). It's just often very wrong to assume that any individual matches the average of whatever group you decide to look at. The generational labels are too ill defined to be of any use, mind.

What have I done. Anyway, I’m 58 and I know my enemy.

monkey wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:48 pm It can be useful and interesting to look at demographics and opinion (and other things). It's just often very wrong to assume that any individual matches the average of whatever group you decide to look at.

That would be the ecological fallacy.

In terms of characterizing generations, there are two things going on.

There may well be generational effects. For example, growing up during the 1930s and 1940s may well have had a life-long effect upon attitudes (on average of course).

But people also seem to have a have a tendency, on average, to have more conservative attitudes as they get older.

Woodchopper wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:22 am ... But people also seem to have a have a tendency, on average, to have more conservative attitudes as they get older.

Does seem to be true and was in part why I voted Remain - things were ok so why take the risk of making radical changes?

Woodchopper wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:22 am
But people also seem to have a have a tendency, on average, to have more conservative attitudes as they get older.

Which is ironic given the suggestion that while the Boomers and Xers were increasingly liberal, the Millennials are supposedly more conservative, at least according to a hundred clickbait articles.

It all sounds like bollocks to me TBH.

Woodchopper wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:22 am In terms of characterizing generations, there are two things going on.

There may well be generational effects. For example, growing up during the 1930s and 1940s may well have had a life-long effect upon attitudes (on average of course).

But people also seem to have a have a tendency, on average, to have more conservative attitudes as they get older.

IIRC there was a distinct voting difference between >80s - who had a childhood during WW2 - and 70s who had no memory of the war or even the rationing.

But whatever, it's infuriating that elderly people are lumped together and subjected to the sh.tty "boomer" abuse from idiots.

lpm wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:10 am But whatever, it's infuriating that elderly people are lumped together and subjected to the sh.tty "boomer" abuse from idiots.

If the boomers are anything to go by some of the young people being abusive will grow up to be remarkably similar to their parents.

lpm wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:10 am But whatever, it's infuriating that elderly people are lumped together and subjected to the sh.tty "boomer" abuse from idiots.

TBF it's countered by 1,001 stupid newspaper articles about how millennials are ruining everything and can't buy houses because they invested in avocado futures and so on

Right, which is why I'm baffled whenever people on this forum use these generational buckets in a serious way.

It's not only offensive stupidity, it's divisive stupidity, intended to get us fighting over the remaining biscuit while the 1% laugh.

lpm wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:48 am Right, which is why I'm baffled whenever people on this forum use these generational buckets in a serious way.

It's not only offensive stupidity, it's divisive stupidity, intended to get us fighting over the remaining biscuit while the 1% laugh.

They get used because they are useful in describing the circumstances of coming of age in different times and social environments, and entering the workforce and housing market under very different conditions.

Like all generalizations, they are vague, soft-edged and only describing averages, not full distributions.