Scrutable

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:41 am**

dyqik wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:59 pm A "National Conservatism Party" applied to be registered this week. Although whether that's a serious attempt at a new party is not at all clear, c given the other registration applications.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/ ... plications

National Conservatism is a movement set up by the Edmund Burke Society, and has been around since at least 2016 - their first conference was then. Their principles are pretty much what you'd recognise as the aims of the present faction in control of the Conservative Party. They believe in national sovereignty, and free enterprise, immigration control and God. It looks like some kind of an attempt to put intellectual respectability on this kind of view. A lot of the signatories are academics.

If the party name application doesn't come from them, I don't think it could be sustained, with that name already established as theirs. The timing is interesting.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:25 am**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:41 am . . . and God.

I'm always fascinated by these types who, in the UK and elsewhere, claim to be christian when Jesus wouldn't recognise anything in their politics as in line with his teaching - espec the "piss on the poorest in society" stuff.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:30 am**

I asked Ed about this via oujia, he sounded rather peeved, and described them as "Atavistic motherf.ckers pissing on my legacy"

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:22 am**

Lew Dolby wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:25 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:41 am . . . and God.
I'm always fascinated by these types who, in the UK and elsewhere, claim to be christian when Jesus wouldn't recognise anything in their politics as in line with his teaching - espec the "piss on the poorest in society" stuff.

A few years ago, my daughter's singing teacher married an evangelical preacher, of no specific denomination, who had his own little church in a posh village near High Wycombe. Before he persuaded her to give up her immodest musical activities, she used their church hall for some rehearsals. I had a look at the materials in the church, to elucidate what beliefs distinguished this particular church.

Prominent were some materials suggesting that if someone was poor, that was God's design, and we should not interfere with it. Ours not to wonder why. If you are well off, that is OK, because it is also God's design. It explicitly said that the common idea that Christianity implied relieving the poor and giving away your riches was a complete misunderstanding of scripture.

I can understand that such a doctrine is popular in prosperous areas. Religious principles are frequently contradictory, and the distinction between denominations is largely about how they resolve those contradictions. This particular resolution of contradictions is so far from the common understanding of Christian principles, it is practically satire on them.

But maybe they are not as unusual as I thought, but generally avoid attention?

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:26 am**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:22 am
Lew Dolby wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:25 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:41 am . . . and God.
I'm always fascinated by these types who, in the UK and elsewhere, claim to be christian when Jesus wouldn't recognise anything in their politics as in line with his teaching - espec the "piss on the poorest in society" stuff.
A few years ago, my daughter's singing teacher married an evangelical preacher, of no specific denomination, who had his own little church in a posh village near High Wycombe. Before he persuaded her to give up her immodest musical activities, she used their church hall for some rehearsals. I had a look at the materials in the church, to elucidate what beliefs distinguished this particular church.

Prominent were some materials suggesting that if someone was poor, that was God's design, and we should not interfere with it. Ours not to wonder why. If you are well off, that is OK, because it is also God's design. It explicitly said that the common idea that Christianity implied relieving the poor and giving away your riches was a complete misunderstanding of scripture.

I can understand that such a doctrine is popular in prosperous areas. Religious principles are frequently contradictory, and the distinction between denominations is largely about how they resolve those contradictions. This particular resolution of contradictions is so far from the common understanding of Christian principles, it is practically satire on them.

But maybe they are not as unusual as I thought, but generally avoid attention?

I mean it's right there in a lot of Christianity as actually practised, whether it's the obscene wealth of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, televangelists conning the gullible into believing that sending them money is an act of devotion or something that will result in the sender themselves gaining wealth, or things like Anglican hymns that run as follows;

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:49 am**

Not just Anglican: in my nominally secular Glasgow primary school, our lovely (Jewish and male) primary teacher was off sick, and we got this Presbyterian harpy who gave us two hours of 'religious instruction' every morning. She was very fond of that hymn. I particularly remember her impressing the fires of Hell on us: the fire that "burns and burns but does not consume" so that you would suffer the agony for all eternity. We were eight years old, ffs.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:04 am**

We are told that the House of Lords Appointments Commission removed eight of Johnson's list. They only deal with appointments to the House of Lords. We don't get to know who they are. Suggestions that they might include Mad Nad and Alok Sharma are speculation.

The most interesting peerage is for 29-yr-old Charlotte Owen, appointed as a SPAD to Johnson, with no specific known role or past record.

Other honours like knighthoods, etc, are vetted by the Cabinet Office. It is unclear whether that also had removals. Sunak says he sent it on unaltered, but others are saying there were removals. There is some suggestion he wanted a knighthood for his father, but again that seems to be unconfirmable.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:49 am**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:04 am

The most interesting peerage is for 29-yr-old Charlotte Owen, appointed as a SPAD to Johnson, with no specific known role or past record.

A fair bit of speculation that she's his daughter from his first marriage. I would have thought it would be fairly easy to confirm/deny that so I'm puzzled that neiher "camp" has done so yet.

Ed - spelling and/or invention of new word

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:35 pm**

Imrael wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:49 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:04 am The most interesting peerage is for 29-yr-old Charlotte Owen, appointed as a SPAD to Johnson, with no specific known role or past record.
A fair bit of speculation that she's his daughter from his first marriage. I would have thought it would be fairly easy to confirm/deny that so I'm puzzled that neiher "camp" has done so yet.

I suspect that is the small coincidence of his first wife being called Allegra Mostyn-Owen. We don't seem to be getting enough bibliographical details on Charlotte Kathryn Tranter Owen which might suffice to make quite clear there is no association, but with a name like that it looks rather unlikely.

Web widely says that Allegra Mostyn-Owen has no children. Charlotte Owen was born in 1993, the year of Johnson and Mostyn-Owen's divorce. I think that if she was having a child around then, that was an astonishingly well-kept secret.

I wonder what secrets Baroness Owen knows.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:27 pm**

Imrael wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:49 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:04 am

The most interesting peerage is for 29-yr-old Charlotte Owen, appointed as a SPAD to Johnson, with no specific known role or past record.

A fair bit of speculation that she's his daughter from his first marriage. I would have thought it would be fairly easy to confirm/deny that so I'm puzzled that neiher "camp" has done so yet.

Ed - spelling and/or invention of new word

Surely its possible that Charlotte Owen herself is the mother of one of his children.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:54 pm**

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:27 pm Surely its possible that Charlotte Owen herself is the mother of one of his children.

A lot of chutzpah drawing such prominent attention to his gratitude to a young lady about the same time his wife announces her 3rd pregancy, if the reason is along those lines.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:50 pm**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:54 pm
Woodchopper wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:27 pm Surely its possible that Charlotte Owen herself is the mother of one of his children.
A lot of chutzpah drawing such prominent attention to his gratitude to a young lady about the same time his wife announces her 3rd pregancy, if the reason is along those lines.

The list was public 7 months ago.

At the time, The Spectator had a headline Boris's babes to join the Lords.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:51 pm**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:54 pm
Woodchopper wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:27 pm Surely its possible that Charlotte Owen herself is the mother of one of his children.
A lot of chutzpah drawing such prominent attention to his gratitude to a young lady about the same time his wife announces her 3rd pregancy, if the reason is along those lines.

Potentially the answer is in you're previous comment

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:35 pm
Imrael wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:49 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:04 am The most interesting peerage is for 29-yr-old Charlotte Owen, appointed as a SPAD to Johnson, with no specific known role or past record.
A fair bit of speculation that she's his daughter from his first marriage. I would have thought it would be fairly easy to confirm/deny that so I'm puzzled that neiher "camp" has done so yet.
I suspect that is the small coincidence of his first wife being called Allegra Mostyn-Owen. We don't seem to be getting enough bibliographical details on Charlotte Kathryn Tranter Owen which might suffice to make quite clear there is no association, but with a name like that it looks rather unlikely.

Web widely says that Allegra Mostyn-Owen has no children. Charlotte Owen was born in 1993, the year of Johnson and Mostyn-Owen's divorce. I think that if she was having a child around then, that was an astonishingly well-kept secret.

I wonder what secrets Baroness Owen knows.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:33 pm**

Does anyone know what on earth has happened to the Three Hundreds of Chiltern in the past few minutes?

Reports are coming in that it's collapsed into chaos and is being looted.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:44 pm**

TimW wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:50 pm The list was public 7 months ago.

At the time, The Spectator had a headline Boris's babes to join the Lords.

What do you mean by public? It was a leak, or briefing, of the kind that often aren't reliable. The Times say they got it from ABdeP Johnson himself. But Johnson's official spokesman at the time described it as "speculation".

But no one has been made a peer who wasn't on that list. So it turns out it was probably an accurate list. But we didn't know that at the time.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:56 pm**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:44 pm What do you mean by public?

OK fine, mostly what I meant was that the tw.t made his generous choices at our expense ages ago, well before the announcement of his 34th child. That's all.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:00 pm**

lpm wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:33 pm Does anyone know what on earth has happened to the Three Hundreds of Chiltern in the past few minutes?

Reports are coming in that it's collapsed into chaos and is being looted.

Johnson has been appointed as its (indeed, as an inhabitant, my) Steward, though there was some speculation his appointment might be held up while parliament considered the report on him.

On the other hand, Nadine Dorries has not been appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds, nor the Manor of Northstead, not even for a few minutes. So I think she is still an MP just now. It seems like she hasn't actually followed through from her announcement with a formal application.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:05 pm**

I'm quite looking forward to picking up the Spectator this week (I read it so you don't have to), should be an absolute bloodbath.

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:55 am**

Air conditioning, meet soil conditioning.

: acmsc.png (114.18 KiB) Viewed 3022 times

From today's The Times via the BBC review of the papers.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:24 am**

IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:00 pm On the other hand, Nadine Dorries has not been appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds, nor the Manor of Northstead, not even for a few minutes. So I think she is still an MP just now. It seems like she hasn't actually followed through from her announcement with a formal application.

And it's now news, that she hasn't actually resigned (yet).

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:30 am**

tenchboy wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:55 am Air conditioning, meet soil conditioning.
acmsc.png
From today's The Times via the BBC review of the papers.

When Johnson said he inadvertently misled parliament, it struck me that what he meant was that, being accustomed to making his routine inaccuracies and distortions when speaking in parliament, and routinely getting away with it without any formal charge, he was inadvertent in failing to realise that on this occasion he would be held account for the accuracy of what he said.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:58 am**

IvanV wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:24 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:00 pm On the other hand, Nadine Dorries has not been appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds, nor the Manor of Northstead, not even for a few minutes. So I think she is still an MP just now. It seems like she hasn't actually followed through from her announcement with a formal application.
And it's now news, that she hasn't actually resigned (yet).

Quite... why resign when you can keep drawing MP salary and expenses and be a thorn in the side of... well, everybody?

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:57 pm**

TopBadger wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:58 am
IvanV wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:24 am
IvanV wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:00 pm On the other hand, Nadine Dorries has not been appointed Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds, nor the Manor of Northstead, not even for a few minutes. So I think she is still an MP just now. It seems like she hasn't actually followed through from her announcement with a formal application.
And it's now news, that she hasn't actually resigned (yet).
Quite... why resign when you can keep drawing MP salary and expenses and be a thorn in the side of... well, everybody?

Or is she going to wait until the by electtion results and then see about prompting another?

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:42 pm**

jimbob wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:57 pm Or is she going to wait until the by electtion results and then see about prompting another?

Or just spread the by-elections out to keep them in the news for longer, for maximum pain? But maybe she still hopes her resignation might be useful to Johnson, if carefully timed.

Johnson is talking about coming back to front-line politics as soon as he can. Maybe Mid-Beds* can be useful to him if the timing is right. It doesn't look very likely that he could be selected as a Con candidate and come back in a by-election instantly just now. The constituency party mentioned a local candidate it has informally lined up to replace Mad Nad. But things change quickly in the Johnsonian world, and he remains the favourite leader of the party members.

*Mid-Beds is an attractive seat for him. Conservative since 1931. 56% Leave vote. Large Tory majorities, even when the candidate is Mad Nad, another politician with a remote relationship to accuracy and truth. 5 times they voted her in, with over 50% of the vote in the last 4 elections.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:16 pm**

There are some rather feverish rumours that Boris may try to start a new political party which rabid right-wingers think would be popular, but surely would split the vote on the right and be quite funny.

Scrutable

Johnson - goodbye, or au revoir?

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