Scrutable

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:27 am**

GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:24 am hang on, something odd here. BBC news website says:

The handful of results so far were broadly in line with the exit poll, which was conducted by Ipsos Mori at 144 polling stations, with 22,790 interviews, polling expert Sir John Curtice told BBC News.

Labour's vote is predicted to be nearly 12% down on the 2017 general election, with the Conservatives up 2.5%

Hmmm. Sounds like transposition then. It was 42-40 in 2017.

Apparently reading whole sentences is useful for understanding things.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:38 am**

it's late, and everything is sh.t.

Have another drink, and then have one for me.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:45 am**

can't recrate

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:45 am**

I had planned to stay up and do shitloads of research and election result analysis and stuff (like you lot do all the time but I don't because I'm thick and lazy) and come out of this ready to actually do something. However I am in fact eating cold pizza and googling 25 year old images of Alan Partridge.

It's the thought...

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:47 am**

Gfamily wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:45 am
GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:38 am
J...must be ready to get people like me and you back.
A definite definition of what direction a destination should look like.

any advice on, like "what?"

It will be a long road, but we can start with "Not Corbyn and his little elves", and take it from there. After all, it must be clear to you by now that this was the main problem here.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:00 am**

GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:47 am
Gfamily wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:45 am
GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:38 am
J...must be ready to get people like me and you back.
A definite definition of what direction a destination should look like.

any advice on, like "what?"
It will be a long road, but we can start with "Not Corbyn and his little elves", and take it from there. After all, it must be clear to you by now that this was the main problem here.

No - "not .. X. " is not a f.cking destination.

Useful destinations please.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:06 am**

If I'm going to point the finger anywhere apart from the Tories, it'll be at any Lib Dems and Greens who stood in marginal seats and split the vote.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:20 am**

Gfamily wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:00 am
GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:47 am
Gfamily wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:45 am

A definite definition of what direction a destination should look like.

any advice on, like "what?"
It will be a long road, but we can start with "Not Corbyn and his little elves", and take it from there. After all, it must be clear to you by now that this was the main problem here.
No - "not .. X. " is not a f.cking destination.

Useful destinations please.

The destination is a Labour Party that can win. We don't know what that looks like yet. That is crashingly f.cking obvious. You sit at your keyboard and expect me to have all the answers for the abject failure of Corbyn's Labour?

But every single thing that has happened in the last three years has told us obviously and unequivocally that the first step that party needs to to be take is to dump this f.cking useless dud, and those who prop him up.

Then you can start planning to win. the rest of us will be watching. Don't f.ck it up again.

Just how f.cking obvious does that have to be? Did you catch any news tonight at all?

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:27 am**

Well, Corbyn obviously has a lot of faults and unpalatable baggage, Momentum are/were blind to these problems and propped him up as leader (simultaneously alienating other factions within the party), many on the center and the right of the Labour party failed to hold their noses and get behind Corbyn regardless once he was firmly ensconced (either for personal reasons or because they don't really like leftist economics), Corbyn's Labour was too Brexity for Remainers but too Remainy for Brexiters, the BBC was massively biased, the Tory media did Tory media things, the Great British Public characteristically failed to assign appropriate weights to the various issues at stake. I think this covers most of the angles.

So anyway I blame Tom Watson.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:32 am**

I'm going to stick my neck on the line, having earlier had a conversation that reminded me of the recent past rather than the present.

I think Corbyn should go now. I also think that a little bit more unity behind him when he was first elected may have softened things somewhat.

However that is also tempered a bit by the antisemitism issue (which impacted on my voting decision).

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:33 am**

I blame low-information voters.

What a surprise that it was old people and the countryside who can't keep up with this confusing modern age and made a sh.t decision, while going people with their smart phones and people in thriving towns who can at least coexist with multiple perspectives rejected the liemobile.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:36 am**

We all know who is really to blame.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:37 am**

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:27 am So anyway I blame Tom Watson.

I certainly blame him for setting himself up as a kind of standard bearer for the centre-left and then f.cking the f.ck off, with no notice.

Earlier, Stella Creasy, for example, was sticking her neck out, trying to rally people to stay and not do the ChUK type thing.

But its complicated. He got a diabetes diagnosis, which tends to get your attention, and that got him into his fitness thing...

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:27 am**

discovolante wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:28 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:26 am Tbh I think you do it by being more Tony.
OK. We have one non-Tory person on in oooh how long? who people have identified as a good leader. Regardless of Iraq or whatever, people like that are like gold dust. If the only comparison people can make, over and over again, is with Tony Blair, one politician, then it is not just the opposition that is the problem.

Indeed. The problem is the English voters. They want this sh.t. Well they've got it. Trouble is so have the Scots and the Irish and they didn't vote for it. I can see why they hate the English. I hate the f.cking English right now.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:36 am**

Herainestold wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:36 am We all know who is really to blame.

Go on then. I'll bite.

Who is it?

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 am**

All those useless a..eholes who were told outright who they were supporting - a deeply unleasant, racist enabling, anti Europe twunt who will side with anyone against his own country - and supported him anyway. You know who you are.

All those who kept scrabbling to make excuses for his sucking up to all kinds of racists and homophobes, just so long as they agreed with him on something - usually hating the west or Israel. You know who you are.

All those who supported him again, in the leadership challenge, when it was clear he had made no effort to campaign for the Labour party's position, and in so doing, cost Remain the referendum. You know who you are.

All the idiot a..eholes of the chattering classes who were so smug about being "pure" in opposition, rather than pragmatic and with a chance of government. You know who you are.

There were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Look what you've done.

And then think about how it will affect those outside the middle class chattering classes.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:09 am**

Herainestold wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:36 am We all know who is really to blame.

Second time you've done this. Spell it out now, come on.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:31 am**

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 am All those useless a..eholes who were told outright who they were supporting - a deeply unleasant, racist enabling, anti Europe twunt who will side with anyone against his own country - and supported him anyway. You know who you are.

All those who kept scrabbling to make excuses for his sucking up to all kinds of racists and homophobes, just so long as they agreed with him on something - usually hating the west or Israel. You know who you are.

All those who supported him again, in the leadership challenge, when it was clear he had made no effort to campaign for the Labour party's position, and in so doing, cost Remain the referendum. You know who you are.

All the idiot a..eholes of the chattering classes who were so smug about being "pure" in opposition, rather than pragmatic and with a chance of government. You know who you are.

There were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Look what you've done.

And then think about how it will affect those outside the middle class chattering classes.

But Boris won?

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:00 am**

It's David Cameron's fault that the UK is leaving the EU.

If the leader of the losing party takes responsibility as they should, then it is Jeremy Corbyn's fault for not steering the Labour party in a winning direction.

Alexander steered the Tories in a winning direction by adopting Brexit. He is now free to do what he likes.

It will be sad to see the effect on the UK.

I expect the Scots to push for independence.

I expect trouble involving the border with Ireland.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am**

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 am All those useless a..eholes who were told outright who they were supporting - a deeply unleasant, racist enabling, anti Europe twunt who will side with anyone against his own country - and supported him anyway. You know who you are.

All those who kept scrabbling to make excuses for his sucking up to all kinds of racists and homophobes, just so long as they agreed with him on something - usually hating the west or Israel. You know who you are.

All those who supported him again, in the leadership challenge, when it was clear he had made no effort to campaign for the Labour party's position, and in so doing, cost Remain the referendum. You know who you are.

All the idiot a..eholes of the chattering classes who were so smug about being "pure" in opposition, rather than pragmatic and with a chance of government. You know who you are.

There were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Look what you've done.

And then think about how it will affect those outside the middle class chattering classes.

EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:31 am**

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

What was so wrong with the manifesto that the struggling working class will get a better deal from the Tories?

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:55 am**

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 amThere were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Well, not here. We only set it up last month.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:56 am**

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:55 am
EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 amThere were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.
Well, not here. We only set it up last month.

Lmao

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:57 am**

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:31 am
lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.
What was so wrong with the manifesto that the struggling working class will get a better deal from the Tories?

Economic damage and chaos not enough for you? Deliberately preventing investment into the UK not a bit a of a give away? The evil at the heart of it all of believing hurting the immigrant working class is the way to help the "British" working class?

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:57 am**

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:31 am
lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.
What was so wrong with the manifesto that the struggling working class will get a better deal from the Tories?

See the section on brexit.

Scrutable

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