Scrutable

basementer wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:54 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:38 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:10 pmA quick google for "IQ mental illness" keeps bringing up the same study https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... telligent/ which showed that Mensa members are more prone to mental disorders than the general population. However, I'm not convinced that their IQ is necessarily the most parsimonious explanation for that. https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... telligent/

People, even within the IQ range that makes you eligible for Mensa membership, are not randomly assigned to become members.

FWIW, the few people I've met who made their Mensa membership public knowledge have all been insufferable a..eholes. Apologies to any members here --- I'm sure you're one of the lovely ones.

I've known three people who disclosed their Mensa membership to me. Two of them had joined for identical reasons - there were insufferable a..eholes in the office going on about having joined, and the best way to shut them up was to take the test and get a higher score. The third was a bit of an a..eh.le.

Tessa K wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:02 am If anyone starts going on about their IQ I just say 'I have a f.cking PhD, I don't care what mine is'. That usually shuts them up. And proves that swearing is not a sign of low intelligence as my mother was fond of saying. I am big and I am clever.

Tessa K wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:02 am If anyone starts going on about their IQ I just say 'I have a f.cking PhD, I don't care what mine is'. That usually shuts them up. And proves that swearing is not a sign of low intelligence as my mother was fond of saying. I am big and I am clever.

bjn wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm For shiggles I started to have a go at this supposed MENSA test, this test. Talk about ambiguous answers (e.g. question 4). Couldn't be arsed to proceed beyond the first page.

murmur wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:13 pm That's the MENSA test; IQ figures derived from testing such as WISC-R (wot I mentioned earlier) are a lot less prone to that sort of "revising" and are externally judged, by a qualified psychologist, according to normed criteria.

Ooops, we're on to WISC-V since I jacked it in.

Fishnut wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:53 pm I'm not feeling hugely well today so thought I'd give it a go. I got to the end (what a dull, repetitive test) and was confronted with this
Screen Shot 2020-02-25 at 16.49.26.png

I don't know if you get sent your results for free or if paying for all the extras is the only way. One thing that really dispels the idea that it's testing something innate rather than learned is the line "tips to help you solve questions quicker". And why would you need practice tests unless you can improve your score with practice? And if you can do that then doesn't that just show that the score isn't fixed according to how "intelligent" you are but can be manipulated based on experience?

dyqik wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:22 pm

murmur wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:13 pm That's the MENSA test; IQ figures derived from testing such as WISC-R (wot I mentioned earlier) are a lot less prone to that sort of "revising" and are externally judged, by a qualified psychologist, according to normed criteria.

Ooops, we're on to WISC-V since I jacked it in.

A snarky thought based on the expansion of WISC - IQ is definitely a test for overgrown children.

rockdoctor wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:58 pm I joined MENSA as a kid. Then I met the other members.
Never mentioned it again

Fishnut wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:53 pm

bjn wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm For shiggles I started to have a go at this supposed MENSA test, this test. Talk about ambiguous answers (e.g. question 4). Couldn't be arsed to proceed beyond the first page.

I'm not feeling hugely well today so thought I'd give it a go. I got to the end (what a dull, repetitive test) and was confronted with this
Screen Shot 2020-02-25 at 16.49.26.png

I don't know if you get sent your results for free or if paying for all the extras is the only way. One thing that really dispels the idea that it's testing something innate rather than learned is the line "tips to help you solve questions quicker". And why would you need practice tests unless you can improve your score with practice? And if you can do that then doesn't that just show that the score isn't fixed according to how "intelligent" you are but can be manipulated based on experience?

Bird on a Fire wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:21 pm

rockdoctor wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:58 pm I joined MENSA as a kid. Then I met the other members.
Never mentioned it again

Yeah I went to a "young Mensa" day once when I was a kid. Once.

I was in all sorts of clubs with all sorts of people as a littlun, but something about those IQ-obsessives made me feel uncomfortable.

jimbob wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:21 pm

rockdoctor wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:58 pm I joined MENSA as a kid. Then I met the other members.
Never mentioned it again

Yeah I went to a "young Mensa" day once when I was a kid. Once.

I was in all sorts of clubs with all sorts of people as a littlun, but something about those IQ-obsessives made me feel uncomfortable.

Because a club of, say bird watchers, are presumably doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, whilst a club of IQ obsessives is presumably people doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, which is feeling superior to others (presumably also others in that club)?

jimbob wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:21 pm

rockdoctor wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:58 pm I joined MENSA as a kid. Then I met the other members.
Never mentioned it again

Yeah I went to a "young Mensa" day once when I was a kid. Once.

I was in all sorts of clubs with all sorts of people as a littlun, but something about those IQ-obsessives made me feel uncomfortable.

Because a club of, say bird watchers, are presumably doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, whilst a club of IQ obsessives is presumably people doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, which is feeling superior to others (presumably also others in that club)?

Tessa K wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:49 am

jimbob wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:21 pm
Yeah I went to a "young Mensa" day once when I was a kid. Once.

I was in all sorts of clubs with all sorts of people as a littlun, but something about those IQ-obsessives made me feel uncomfortable.

Because a club of, say bird watchers, are presumably doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, whilst a club of IQ obsessives is presumably people doing something they enjoy with like-minded people, which is feeling superior to others (presumably also others in that club)?

People who want intelligent conversation among like-minded others should come to Skeptics in the Pub. Most of the people there are pretty bright. Plus we have beer.

Maybe Mensa was set up to encourage intelligent people to meet up and breed?

Fishnut wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:53 pm

bjn wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm For shiggles I started to have a go at this supposed MENSA test, this test. Talk about ambiguous answers (e.g. question 4). Couldn't be arsed to proceed beyond the first page.

I'm not feeling hugely well today so thought I'd give it a go. I got to the end (what a dull, repetitive test) and was confronted with this
Screen Shot 2020-02-25 at 16.49.26.png

I don't know if you get sent your results for free or if paying for all the extras is the only way. One thing that really dispels the idea that it's testing something innate rather than learned is the line "tips to help you solve questions quicker". And why would you need practice tests unless you can improve your score with practice? And if you can do that then doesn't that just show that the score isn't fixed according to how "intelligent" you are but can be manipulated based on experience?

PeteB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am I remember Sheldrake posthing this

How much is a child’s future success determined by innate intelligence? Economist James Heckman says it’s not what people think. He likes to ask educated non-scientists — especially politicians and policy makers — how much of the difference between people’s incomes can be tied to IQ. Most guess around 25 percent, even 50 percent, he says. But the data suggest a much smaller influence: about 1 or 2 percent.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:29 am

PeteB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am I remember Sheldrake posthing this

How much is a child’s future success determined by innate intelligence? Economist James Heckman says it’s not what people think. He likes to ask educated non-scientists — especially politicians and policy makers — how much of the difference between people’s incomes can be tied to IQ. Most guess around 25 percent, even 50 percent, he says. But the data suggest a much smaller influence: about 1 or 2 percent.

Income isn't necessarily the measure of "success" most intelligent people I know are trying to maximise, though.

PeteB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am I remember Sheldrake posthing this

How much is a child’s future success determined by innate intelligence? Economist James Heckman says it’s not what people think. He likes to ask educated non-scientists — especially politicians and policy makers — how much of the difference between people’s incomes can be tied to IQ. Most guess around 25 percent, even 50 percent, he says. But the data suggest a much smaller influence: about 1 or 2 percent.

Woodchopper wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:37 pm

PeteB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am I remember Sheldrake posthing this

How much is a child’s future success determined by innate intelligence? Economist James Heckman says it’s not what people think. He likes to ask educated non-scientists — especially politicians and policy makers — how much of the difference between people’s incomes can be tied to IQ. Most guess around 25 percent, even 50 percent, he says. But the data suggest a much smaller influence: about 1 or 2 percent.

As discussed with Sheldrake, that is the effect of intelligence alone. Income appears to be a the result of an interaction between several factors - eg intelligence, education, aspects of character like perseverance, and home and neighborhood environment.