Scrutable

If trump is put on a ventilator and pence takes over temporarily under the 25th amendment, does he still have the casting vote in the senate?

EACLucifer wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:22 am This is Regeneron's own release on their antibody treatment. AFAICT, it's a promising but as yet unproven approach. Trump's promoted total quack b.llsh.t, but it does not mean every drug he takes is woo.

He’s having remdesivir as well. Ditto. He’s having everything he can get that doctors are prepared to give. He must be sh.tting himself.

I'm sure he thinks he's has access to these experimental treatments because he's special, as if they haven't been rolled out to the population because they're in short supply rather than because we're still not sure if they aren't dangerous rather than useful.

I still say he mustn't die: he's got to go to the election and lose and do the loser's hand over in front of the camera's and the whole world singing and pointing, "You're sh-i-t, and you know you are, You're sh-i-t, and you know you are...'.

shpalman wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:03 am I'm sure he thinks he's has access to these experimental treatments because he's special, as if they haven't been rolled out to the population because they're in short supply rather than because we're still not sure if they aren't dangerous rather than useful.

It's basically a clinical trial with very narrow inclusion criteria. I'm not sure if it's big enough to reach statistical significance.

shpalman wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:03 am I'm sure he thinks he's has access to these experimental treatments because he's special, as if they haven't been rolled out to the population because they're in short supply rather than because we're still not sure if they aren't dangerous rather than useful.

As I understand it, Remdesivir is approved for some level of use in the states and is being limited by supply. I think Regeneron's antibody mix has been through enough trials to be considered relatively safe to administer, too.

Cardinal Fang wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:34 am Normally I try to avoid giving credence to conspiracy theories, but keep coming across people suggesting that Donnie is faking it because he's cottoned on there's a real possibilty that he may lose the election, and pulling out of the race because he's got long COVID is a face saving way of doing it.

Personally I think that requires too much self awareness on the part of Trump, but as conspiracy theories go, it's one of the more plausible ones.

CF

I think that's quite unlikely as Trump is the sort of utter sh.t who thinks getting ill - rather than how one reacts to getting ill - is a sign of weakness and mocks people for illness and disability.

tenchboy wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:23 am I still say he mustn't die: he's got to go to the election and lose and do the loser's hand over in front of the camera's and the whole world singing and pointing, "You're sh-i-t, and you know you are, You're sh-i-t, and you know you are...'.

I think you've cracked it. Dying is just his way of avoiding losing the election.

So in the States Remdesivir is generally reserved for severe cases. Given it's mode of action, it's probably most effective taken early, but supplies are limited, and it seems Trump probably has been given it early. However, there are now a lot people saying Trump must have severe COVID because he's had Remdesivir.

This is all a fascinating mess, and the White House is very much reaping what they sowed on a number of areas.

It's also notable that the hydroxychloroquine and other crank sh.t was obviously just for his marks, a way of making him look like he knew how to deal with it, and that when push came toi shove, he - or more likely his doctors - went for cutting edge, high tech medicine.

EACLucifer wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:34 am

Cardinal Fang wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:34 am Normally I try to avoid giving credence to conspiracy theories, but keep coming across people suggesting that Donnie is faking it because he's cottoned on there's a real possibilty that he may lose the election, and pulling out of the race because he's got long COVID is a face saving way of doing it.

Personally I think that requires too much self awareness on the part of Trump, but as conspiracy theories go, it's one of the more plausible ones.

CF

I think that's quite unlikely as Trump is the sort of utter sh.t who thinks getting ill - rather than how one reacts to getting ill - is a sign of weakness and mocks people for illness and disability.

There is a whole category of crimes and conspiracies that rarely happen because the kind of person who might be tempted to get the benefit of them is not the kind of person who can pull them off. Most of us moderately clever people here can probably come up with a pretty solid plan, but we aren't likely to become POTUS and even if we did we wouldn't be the kind who needs to leave with an excuse.

“Reveal” has now become synonymous with “unexpected disaster associated with a celebratory event”

This is how sh.t like this happens. Increasingly looking like a superspreading event, with further spread because the f.cking repubs tried to keep it under wraps, didn't notify people of a need to isolate, hell, still aren't notifying people.

There's video that's even worse - hand shakes, hugs, cheek kissess all like there's no pandemic. I actually ended up very sad watching the video, as it was a reminder of what we have, for now, lost, or rather, what we have lost if we are responsible people who give a sh.t about the lives of others.

Editing to add additional pic, with more detail, from Politico

bolo wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:04 am

Little waster wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:25 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:49 pm

Met with Judge Barrett, too, which will be interesting if she has to quarantine

Presumably that would blow a big hole in the timetable to get her through her nomination hearings unless they can do it via Zoom or something.

Filibuster is a tw.t’s move but Shirley with the election this close the Dems could run the clock down without breaking a sweat.

Barrett tested positive a while ago and has since recovered (WaPo). Does that mean she won't be advised to quarantine? I don't know, but any quarantine advice wouldn't be mandatory anyway, so I'd be surprised if her exposure delays anything.

Btw, some congressional hearings these days are indeed being held at least partially via video, but it's possible that this requires bipartisan consent, at least under current rules. I don't really know that though, just guessing.

The filibuster was eliminated for Supreme Court nominations in 2017 (for Gorsuch). It had been eliminated for other executive and judicial nominations in 2013 (by the Democrats).

Aah but when does a filibuster become a filibuster? Genuine question.

It’s easy to spot someone reading out the entire works of Dr Seuss but what happens when someone just rambles on for an hour rather than 10 mins without drifting off-topic, or the democrats arrive 30 mins late preventing quorum, or set off the fire alarm every hour on the hour or any of 100 other possible underhand ways of grinding the system to a crawl in the remaining days if they so chose.

Unless the anti-filibuster legislation specified exact time limits and dates and gives the Republicans the option to simply guillotine proceedings if they over-run.

IANUSconstitutionalspecialist but presumably the Dems have an army of political spods who could use every arcane procedure in the book to gum stuff up if they wanted to. If so though I haven’t found it discussed anywhere online.

On the bright side, he did always want to be President for the rest of his life.

This just in...

Carl Heneghan - Director of the University of Oxford's Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine has tweeted...

"This is just a seasonal thing, in my busy shifts as an out-of-hours GP (that I squeeze in-between tweets and that qualify me to speak authoritatively on epidemiological matters) I often see Presidents airlifted to specialist medical centres around this time of year #PCRsucks"

Meanwhile, a new epidemiological modelling study by Professor Sunetra Gupta has suggested that now that 28.6% of the close Trump family have tested postive for COVID-19 they have exceeded the predicted 20% "herd immunity" threshold. So the Trump family can now ditch their masks - and hold a "Boston T-Cell Party" to celebrate.

Grumble wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:10 am “Reveal” has now become synonymous with “unexpected disaster associated with a celebratory event”

FFS reveal parties now infest just announcing a new appointee? Did they have a big bunch of balloons someone exploded with a flamethrower to unleash a cascade of red confetti and glitter? Congratulations, it's a Republican.

Martin Y wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:31 am

Grumble wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:10 am “Reveal” has now become synonymous with “unexpected disaster associated with a celebratory event”

FFS reveal parties now infest just announcing a new appointee? Did they have a big bunch of balloons someone exploded with a flamethrower to unleash a cascade of red confetti and glitter? Congratulations, it's a Republican.

I think the headline was the Guardian having some fun tbh

sTeamTraen wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:57 pm It occurs to me that if Trump dies at Walter Reed without being seen again, we are going to see the mother of all conspiracy theories (or rather, multiple mothers). The left will think he got spirited away to Moscow. The QAnon types will think he's still controlling the fight against Hillary's paedophile gang from a secret passage under Mar-a-Lago.

Playing up the Trump-Russia connection is more of a Liberal thing than a Left thing.

"I’m sure he’ll come through it very well" says noted virologist bullshitter Boris Johnson so let's see if he's wrong about this too.

secret squirrel wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:39 am

sTeamTraen wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:57 pm It occurs to me that if Trump dies at Walter Reed without being seen again, we are going to see the mother of all conspiracy theories (or rather, multiple mothers). The left will think he got spirited away to Moscow. The QAnon types will think he's still controlling the fight against Hillary's paedophile gang from a secret passage under Mar-a-Lago.

Playing up the Trump-Russia connection is more of a Liberal thing than a Left thing.

The Left's take is presumably that Trump and the Republicans behaviour is merely the long-awaited death-throes of capitalism and the only real difference is they are simply less competent in hiding the grift and contradictions than their predecessors were. #historicaldialectism

bolo wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:54 am

sTeamTraen wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:56 pm

monkey wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:21 pm He's getting helicoptered. It's only a 30 min drive! And that's without flashy lights.

(I suspect this is a security thing)

Various people (not Trump fans) are pointing out that the Secret Service prefers the President to travel in Marine One for these sorts of situations. There's the security aspect, plus a motorcade usually gets a great deal of planning (like, weeks in advance), so to suddenly close down the northern half of the DC commuting system as 5pm on a Friday (even with reduced traffic due to COVID) is probably going to mess up the start of a lot of people's weekends.

I've been stuck in traffic in DC because of presidential motorcades, and yes, they are a huge mess. It wouldn't just be Trump in a car with flashy lights. It would be a whole parade of Secret Service SUVs and decoy cars and whatnot, preceded by hordes of police cars and motorcycles to clear the route and block off every single effing side street until the parade has passed. In fact, given the number of police required, it wouldn't surprise me if the helicopter option is actually cheaper.

The helicopter is way cheaper, just from a staffing point of view.

Remember that the helicopter is already costed in for longer and more emergency/critical trips, so there's only the marginal cost of an extra trip to account for.

bolo wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:54 am I've been stuck in traffic in DC because of presidential motorcades, and yes, they are a huge mess. It wouldn't just be Trump in a car with flashy lights. It would be a whole parade of Secret Service SUVs and decoy cars and whatnot, preceded by hordes of police cars and motorcycles to clear the route and block off every single effing side street until the parade has passed. In fact, given the number of police required, it wouldn't surprise me if the helicopter option is actually cheaper.

When I was in DC last year it did surprise me to see an airport style fire tender in DCFD livery in the George Washington University area. Not long after the penny dropped that give how close I was to the White House and the helicopter traffic that that gets it makes sense to have a dedicated asset close by.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:56 am If trump is put on a ventilator and pence takes over temporarily under the 25th amendment, does he still have the casting vote in the senate?

No: if the VP is acting as President, he cannot also preside over the Senate.

Instead the number 2, the president pro tempore of the Senate, is in the chair. This is Senator Chuck Grassley (R, Iowa). Mind you, he's 87, has met with some Covid-positive Republicans from Typhoid Trump's superspreader event, and is now refusing to take a test. He's third in line for the Presidency, after Pence and Pelosi.

Does grassley get two votes then?

No.

It's currently 53-47. Assuming all Democrats can attend, it would need 6 Republicans to be dead/dying/hospitalised/quarantined/fled to Moscow, plus Pence as acting Pres. I think it's like the Speaker's Rule in the House of Commons - a motion for the Democrats to seize control of the Senate would need to win, not tie.

But the way they would do it would be to hold a vote for president pro tempore, defeat Grassley, and then set the timetables.