Scrutable

Tessa K wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:40 pm How would sanctions against a country as big as Russia with so many of its own resources have any effect?

Rich people hate losing their money and status. Many love to boast of sending their children to be educated in top elite English schools. Also they love their London mansions as well.

Hit them in the pocket. Revoke Visa 1 applications. Close down the Russian embassy to a skeleton staff. Ban Russia Today.

Swift action must be just that. It's not going to be swift though and Johnson will dither over this.

China has already signed a new wheat and barley deal and is being very reticent about condemning the invasion.

Bad news. Looks like a successful air assault on the international airport next to Kyiv: https://twitter.com/christopherjm/statu ... 07264?s=21

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:39 am This site has a good map which displays events as they happen. Some of the information comes from social media so the usual caveats apply. https://liveuamap.com/

The site appears to be down. Could be to a spike in interest or perhaps a DDOS attack.

lpm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:54 pm The Russian forces coming north out of Crimea have taken Kakhovka, which is on the Dnieper.

Video shows tanks from Crimea crossing the Dnieper at the Antonovski Bridge, which is the furthest downstream bridge.

This is very bad news. It suggests they're looking west to Odessa, not east to create a Sea of Azov corridor.

lpm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:29 pm

lpm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:54 pm The Russian forces coming north out of Crimea have taken Kakhovka, which is on the Dnieper.

Video shows tanks from Crimea crossing the Dnieper at the Antonovski Bridge, which is the furthest downstream bridge.

This is very bad news. It suggests they're looking west to Odessa, not east to create a Sea of Azov corridor.

Absolutely everything is pointing towards a maximalist attempt to take the entire country. Armoured units and helicopters are very good at advancing, whether they have the staying power in the face of determined resistance is yet to be seen.

In other news, apparently N-LAWs do work on modern Russian armour.

For those wondering what it's like on the receiving end of this evil, watch here. Watch with the sound on. Thankfully, the woman and child in this video were not physically harmed, but this is often not the case.

As of yesterday, Russia's apologists were planning a rally this week not against Putin and his cowardly thugs, but against NATO. Not one MP that signed that f.cking letter should be welcome in Labour. Those who can should confront them, demonstrate against them.

The same is true of the right, of course. Farage comes to mind as an excuser and enabler, as do a number of Trumpist Americans.

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:42 pm For those wondering what it's like on the receiving end of this evil, watch here. Watch with the sound on. Thankfully, the woman and child in this video were not physically harmed, but this is often not the case.

As of yesterday, Russia's apologists were planning a rally this week not against Putin and his cowardly thugs, but against NATO. Not one MP that signed that f.cking letter should be welcome in Labour. Those who can should confront them, demonstrate against them.

The same is true of the right, of course. Farage comes to mind as an excuser and enabler, as do a number of Trumpist Americans.

Well said

JQH wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:40 am Another neutral perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

'Neutral' or not, (I'm assuming that you meant that slightly tongue-in cheek), it is put over with wonderful clarity; if I thought (beyond those short Ross Atkins pieces) that we had any television journalism of such quality I might be tempted.
But. 64 thou dollar q: is it a reasonable summation of what we would recognise as an approximation to being as true as any historical summation can be (not withstanding what I perceive to be a Ukrainian viewpoint that might differ from an Russian viewpoint); or is not to be taken too seriously.
Eastern European history somehow passed me by.
tia
TB

tenchboy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:19 pm

JQH wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:40 am Another neutral perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

'Neutral' or not, (I'm assuming that you meant that slightly tongue-in cheek), it is put over with wonderful clarity; if I thought (beyond those short Ross Atkins pieces) that we had any television journalism of such quality I might be tempted.
But. 64 thou dollar q: is it a reasonable summation of what we would recognise as an approximation to being as true as any historical summation can be (not withstanding what I perceive to be a Ukrainian viewpoint that might differ from an Russian viewpoint); or is not to be taken too seriously.
Eastern European history somehow passed me by.
tia
TB

When I was in Catholic school in the 70's, a proportion of my schoolmates had families who had moved from Eastern Europe to Britain during or after WWII.
Most of them were of Polish origin, but a few families were Ukrainian. No affinity for the Russian state there, though that may have been because of their family religious affinity rather than ethnic antipathy.

The Russians appear to have shelled a hospital. Exactly the same playbook as in Syria, then.

Predictably, DSA go on the list of shame, along with the Corbynites and the utterly misnamed Stop The War

The Economist finds an unfortunate way to put it.

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:52 pm Predictably, DSA go on the list of shame, along with the Corbynites and the utterly misnamed Stop The War

DSA?

Who are they?

Stop the War: "... the movement of Russian forces..."

jimbob wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:16 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:52 pm Predictably, DSA go on the list of shame, along with the Corbynites and the utterly misnamed Stop The War

DSA?

Who are they?

American leftwingers, entryists in the democratic party, Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez, Rashida Tlaib etc, got many of the same problems Corbynites have. Obsessed with sanctions against Israel, but today made it very clear they are opposed to sanctions against Putin's invasion army.

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:42 pm For those wondering what it's like on the receiving end of this evil, watch here. Watch with the sound on. Thankfully, the woman and child in this video were not physically harmed, but this is often not the case.

As of yesterday, Russia's apologists were planning a rally this week not against Putin and his cowardly thugs, but against NATO. Not one MP that signed that f.cking letter should be welcome in Labour. Those who can should confront them, demonstrate against them.

The same is true of the right, of course. Farage comes to mind as an excuser and enabler, as do a number of Trumpist Americans.

Which letter? Who signed it?

The usual:

Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, Richard Burgon, Ian Lavery, Zarah Sultana, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Apsana Begum, Mick Whitley, Tahir Ali, Ian Mearns and Beth Winter.

And Jeremy f.cking Corbyn of course.

Allo V Psycho wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:23 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:42 pm For those wondering what it's like on the receiving end of this evil, watch here. Watch with the sound on. Thankfully, the woman and child in this video were not physically harmed, but this is often not the case.

As of yesterday, Russia's apologists were planning a rally this week not against Putin and his cowardly thugs, but against NATO. Not one MP that signed that f.cking letter should be welcome in Labour. Those who can should confront them, demonstrate against them.

The same is true of the right, of course. Farage comes to mind as an excuser and enabler, as do a number of Trumpist Americans.

Which letter? Who signed it?

An STW petition that blames NATO for Putin's despicable behaviour. STW have carried water for fascists and tyrants since their inception, supporting Assad, libelling Syrian victims of Assadist and Russian aggression, opposing the liberation of Mali from Islamist takeover - but not the takeover - and so on.

The MPs are as follows. Many of these f.ckers are also happy to appear on Putin's propaganda channel.

Jeremy Corbyn MP
Diane Abbott MP
John McDonnell MP
Richard Burgon MP
Ian Lavery MP
Beth Winter MP
Zarah Sultana MP
Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Apsana Begum MP
Mick Whitley MP
Tahir Ali MP
Claudia Webbe MP
Ian Mearns MP
Pauline Bryan House of Lords
Christine Blower House of Lords

I gather the chief whip has now written to these pathetic, fascist-apologist a..eholes. Every single one of them should be kicked out of the party if they do not withdraw their name from STW's Putinist b.llsh.t.

The new sanctions package from Britain actually looks kind of ok - especially as it hits Belarus, too - so I can only presume Johnson wasn't involved in drawing it up.

Meanwhile, the f.cking Italians reportedly want an exemption for luxury goods, because of course luxury handbag manufacturers are the priority while Ukrainians fight and die to try and save their capital.

Ukraine Minister of Health reportedly announced that Russia are deliberately bombing hospitals across the countries. We saw this sh.t in Syria. Refusing to counter Assad and his Russian allies in Syria is a major reason we are here now.

Is this the infamous letter?

IvanV wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:03 pm Is this the infamous letter?

Looks like the Labour 11 have backed down https://twitter.com/rewearmouth/status/ ... 90272?s=21

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:21 pm

jimbob wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:16 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:52 pm Predictably, DSA go on the list of shame, along with the Corbynites and the utterly misnamed Stop The War

DSA?

Who are they?

American leftwingers, entryists in the democratic party, Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez, Rashida Tlaib etc, got many of the same problems Corbynites have. Obsessed with sanctions against Israel, but today made it very clear they are opposed to sanctions against Putin's invasion army.

Sorry, I've done some searching, but I can't see what they've done. I saw that AOC signed a letter saying Congress should decide whether to send troops in to Ukraine, but nothing that's criticising NATO/The West, let alone supporting Putin. If anything, they've been quiet on the whole thing, as far as I can tell. Got a link to what offended you?

monkey wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:24 pm Sorry, I've done some searching, but I can't see what they've done. I saw that AOC signed a letter saying Congress should decide whether to send troops in to Ukraine, but nothing that's criticising NATO/The West, let alone supporting Putin. If anything, they've been quiet on the whole thing, as far as I can tell. Got a link to what offended you?

Example. Very much both-sides-ism.

jimbob wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:16 pm DSA?

Who are they?

They were much mocked when this happened.

monkey wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:24 pm

EACLucifer wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:21 pm

jimbob wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:16 pm

DSA?

Who are they?

American leftwingers, entryists in the democratic party, Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez, Rashida Tlaib etc, got many of the same problems Corbynites have. Obsessed with sanctions against Israel, but today made it very clear they are opposed to sanctions against Putin's invasion army.

Sorry, I've done some searching, but I can't see what they've done. I saw that AOC signed a letter saying Congress should decide whether to send troops in to Ukraine, but nothing that's criticising NATO/The West, let alone supporting Putin. If anything, they've been quiet on the whole thing, as far as I can tell. Got a link to what offended you?

"We urge anti-war activists to oppose calls for economic or military escalations", from their official twitter account, along with promoting a "No to NATO" event. Further down the thread that sTeamTraen linked.