Scrutable

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am**

One thing about many? of you (re)joining the Labour party
It is all very well moaning about Momentum etc, but if you join and then behave like a majority of members, then you have no grounds for complaint.
Just filling in a form and paying your money is seldom enough.
The reason Momentum etc "hold sway" is because they are the only f.ckers prepared to do all the donkey work
How many of you re(joining) would be prepared to distribute leaflets, drive others to the polling station etc?

Don't join and then just be a number! Get involved in your local constituency. Join via your Union, or join a Union and pay the political levy and BE ACTIVE in the Union
Remember, although it is "One Member, One Vote", it is usually only the Active Members that regularly vote.

If you want the Labour Party to reflect you and your aims and ambitions - DON'T BE A LAZY f.cker - GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED*

*It will sure take the strain off the rest of us

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 am**

Grumble wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:16 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm Have we decided whether Stoke is in the north yet?
No it f.cking isn’t. I’m barely in the north, I’m pretty much in border territory in Stockport - south Cheshire is midlands.

In more relevant news I have rejoined the Labour Party.

Quite: since when was Staffordshire the North. And I regard Cheshire as the Midlands (see also my argument that Sheffield only becomes North 'cos it's in Yorkshire).

Note: ex-resident of Sheffield; son of a Staffordsdhire person - it was a mixed marriage 'cos my mum was from Durham.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:00 am**

Gentleman Jim wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am One thing about many? of you (re)joining the Labour party
It is all very well moaning about Momentum etc, but if you join and then behave like a majority of members, then you have no grounds for complaint.
Just filling in a form and paying your money is seldom enough.
The reason Momentum etc "hold sway" is because they are the only f.ckers prepared to do all the donkey work
How many of you re(joining) would be prepared to distribute leaflets, drive others to the polling station etc?

Don't join and then just be a number! Get involved in your local constituency. Join via your Union, or join a Union and pay the political levy and BE ACTIVE in the Union
Remember, although it is "One Member, One Vote", it is usually only the Active Members that regularly vote.

If you want the Labour Party to reflect you and your aims and ambitions - DON'T BE A LAZY f.cker - GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED*

*It will sure take the strain off the rest of us

This is a fair point, and something I will try to do, in my terrifically Tory constituency.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:08 am**

Gentleman Jim wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am One thing about many? of you (re)joining the Labour party
It is all very well moaning about Momentum etc, but if you join and then behave like a majority of members, then you have no grounds for complaint.
Just filling in a form and paying your money is seldom enough.
The reason Momentum etc "hold sway" is because they are the only f.ckers prepared to do all the donkey work
How many of you re(joining) would be prepared to distribute leaflets, drive others to the polling station etc?

Don't join and then just be a number! Get involved in your local constituency. Join via your Union, or join a Union and pay the political levy and BE ACTIVE in the Union
Remember, although it is "One Member, One Vote", it is usually only the Active Members that regularly vote.

If you want the Labour Party to reflect you and your aims and ambitions - DON'T BE A LAZY f.cker - GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED*

*It will sure take the strain off the rest of us

Re the "Be active in your union" bit. That's all well and good to want that, but IME and that of The Bread Goddess the local NHS Unison branches were being run as the private fiefdom of a self-selecting clique - we were never informed of meetings, never informed of any internal matters, never consulted on many things to do with local "agreements", couldn't find out enough to even begin to become active. This includes a branch which was riddled with supporters of some NF off shoot, indulged in some obvious witch hunting agin a certain shop steward of Asian origin (long-standing Eye readers should know who i mean), and drove out folk like the lad I knew who'd started the NUPE branch of which I was a founding member.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:47 am**

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:43 am
sheldrake wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:18 pm I'm thinking of joining Labour too.
Well, if Gisele Stuart is still a member, why the f.ck not?

I actually don't trust Boris at all, and I have friends with illnesses and other problems stopping them from being able to fully support themselves. I want them to live in a kind society. I just have deep misgivings with current Labour economic theories about how to raise standards of living for the worst off and I find all the culture war stuff of the younger members deeply grating.

I was raised in a Labour voting household and almost all of my real friends are left of centre, but if something looks wrong I will always say so. This election was the first and likely only time I have voted Tory, and it was purely because I believed in Brexit from a democracy/sovereignity point of view.

I wish there was hope for more practical seeming people like Frank Field to have their economic views heard.

Perhaps it's clearer now why I give you all such a hard time when I read support for ideas which I just know will keep the old-moneyed clique in power ?
The current Labour party works against the interests of its own natural voter base and that is suicidal.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:11 am**

My union is non-affiliated as my workplace is ex-civil service.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:14 am**

Gentleman Jim wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am One thing about many? of you (re)joining the Labour party
It is all very well moaning about Momentum etc, but if you join and then behave like a majority of members, then you have no grounds for complaint.
Just filling in a form and paying your money is seldom enough.
The reason Momentum etc "hold sway" is because they are the only f.ckers prepared to do all the donkey work
How many of you re(joining) would be prepared to distribute leaflets, drive others to the polling station etc?

Don't join and then just be a number! Get involved in your local constituency. Join via your Union, or join a Union and pay the political levy and BE ACTIVE in the Union
Remember, although it is "One Member, One Vote", it is usually only the Active Members that regularly vote.

If you want the Labour Party to reflect you and your aims and ambitions - DON'T BE A LAZY f.cker - GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED*

*It will sure take the strain off the rest of us :lol:

I agree. I think more people should get involved.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:20 am**

sheldrake wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:47 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:43 am
sheldrake wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:18 pm I'm thinking of joining Labour too.
Well, if Gisele Stuart is still a member, why the f.ck not?
I actually don't trust Boris at all, and I have friends with illnesses and other problems stopping them from being able to fully support themselves. I want them to live in a kind society. I just have deep misgivings with current Labour economic theories about how to raise standards of living for the worst off and I find all the culture war stuff of the younger members deeply grating.

I was raised in a Labour voting household and almost all of my real friends are left of centre, but if something looks wrong I will always say so. This election was the first and likely only time I have voted Tory, and it was purely because I believed in Brexit from a democracy/sovereignity point of view.

I wish there was hope for more practical seeming people like Frank Field to have their economic views heard.

Perhaps it's clearer now why I give you all such a hard time when I read support for ideas which I just know will keep the old-moneyed clique in power ?
The current Labour party works against the interests of its own natural voter base and that is suicidal.

Well, fair enough. I'm sure there's plenty we disagree on, but I hope some of the others reading might understand your views a bit better.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:22 am**

Stephanie wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:14 am
Gentleman Jim wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am One thing about many? of you (re)joining the Labour party
It is all very well moaning about Momentum etc, but if you join and then behave like a majority of members, then you have no grounds for complaint.
Just filling in a form and paying your money is seldom enough.
The reason Momentum etc "hold sway" is because they are the only f.ckers prepared to do all the donkey work
How many of you re(joining) would be prepared to distribute leaflets, drive others to the polling station etc?

Don't join and then just be a number! Get involved in your local constituency. Join via your Union, or join a Union and pay the political levy and BE ACTIVE in the Union
Remember, although it is "One Member, One Vote", it is usually only the Active Members that regularly vote.

If you want the Labour Party to reflect you and your aims and ambitions - DON'T BE A LAZY f.cker - GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED*

*It will sure take the strain off the rest of us
I agree. I think more people should get involved.

Although I wrote from my own "leftie" pov, I would like people from all parties to get more involved - maybe not ALL parties/people. Ones like Tony Martin, for instance, can f.ck off and then f.ck off a lot more

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:34 am**

The guy who shot burglars?

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:41 am**

TopBadger wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:06 pm RLB rates JCs leadership as 10/10. :shock: think she may need a trip to specsavers.

Yes, seeing her say she was nobody's "continuity candidate" and in the same breath that there would be no change to policy was an interesting take on the word continuity.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:43 am**

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm Have we decided whether Stoke is in the north yet?

Yes

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:45 am**

Grumble wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:16 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm Have we decided whether Stoke is in the north yet?
No it f.cking isn’t. I’m barely in the north, I’m pretty much in border territory in Stockport - south Cheshire is midlands.

In more relevant news I have rejoined the Labour Party.

Whilst I appreciate your right to self determination, Stockport and indeed, Cheshire are in The North.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:48 am**

plebian wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:43 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm Have we decided whether Stoke is in the north yet?
Yes

I have consulted the local denizens via their football message board and we have a clear answer.

It's the centre of the universe.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:50 am**

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:00 am Hahahaha oh god the Corbynites can't decide who they want.

Just imagine if McCluckey comes out and backs... Barry Gardiner.

Imagine a f.cking top team of Barry f.cking Gardiner and Richard sh.tting Burgon.

Jesus pogo-sticking Christ.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... leadership

This is hilarious.

Shadow cabinet minister to ‘decide within 24 hours’ if he will become seventh candidate

By that he means "when the big hand is on the..."

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:02 pm**

And this is quite something, from Thornberry:

However, even that didn’t prepare me for the battle I had over Labour’s 2019 manifesto, where the advisers around Jeremy Corbyn proposed to amend the language we had used in the 2017 version to remove the condemnation of rocket and terror attacks by Palestinian groups against Israel, while rightly continuing to condemn the illegal occupation of Palestinian land and the blockade of Gaza.

When I repeatedly complained that this was utterly unacceptable, I was told by Jeremy’s office that they thought this was “very balanced considering the considerable imbalance in the conflict”.
...
As for Jeremy, based on his reaction at the meeting, I think he knew nothing about the row, even though his advisers had invoked his name several times beforehand when pressuring me to drop my objections, something I believe they frequently did without his knowledge.

So, if Thornberry is right, Corbyn's advisers were airbrushing Israeli deaths out of history in Corbyn's name, and making other, unspecified, sweeping decisions in his name. Meanwhile, Corbyn had no idea, or pretended to have no idea. This adds yet more to Corbyn's catalogue of incompetence as leader, and makes it imperative that his successor needs to sweep these advisors away.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:17 pm**

Well, Thornberry may not make the cut but she's certainly making sure that she injects her opinions into the puzzling question of whether Jeremy Corbyn is a good leader or not:

I remain convinced that Jeremy is not antisemitic. But I think that clearly we completely failed when it came to dealing with antisemitism in the party, and that was a failure of leadership. And Jeremy knows my views on this. And I’m afraid I would not give him more than 2 out of 10 in relation to that.

But when it comes to principle, bringing people into the party, firing up the party, bringing us back to speaking from our hearts, I would give him 10 out of 10.

Losing an election is probably the most important thing by which you would measure a leader, and obviously we lost very, very badly. And on that basis, I would give him on that nought out of 10. What else could I do?

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:23 pm**

5 of those 8 sentences start with a conjunction.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:26 pm**

bolo wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:23 pm 5 of those 8 sentences start with a conjunction.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:51 pm**

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's Barry

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:57 pm**

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:51 pm Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's Barry

They believe I have the ability to communicate, to bring that dynamism of debate, that is necessary in order to go out to the country.

Haaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaa oh f.ck some wee just came out.

This is the best description of Gardiner I've read, from Rawsnley in the Observer, back when Jez was still trying to avoid conceding any promises of a second ref:

He is not making a definite promise of a fresh referendum, no ifs, no buts, no hesitations, deviations, equivocations and qualifications, and no sending out Barry Gardiner to baffle everyone comatose.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:40 pm**

Doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet but Yvette Cooper declared she won't be standing two days ago - that announcement passed me by.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 pm**

TopBadger wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:40 pm Doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet but Yvette Cooper declared she won't be standing two days ago - that announcement passed me by.

Yes, I think she said the membership was too leftwards of her. And there's also the Iraq thing, I think she's the only one of the current wannabes who voted for it (update, one B. Gardiner did, also, it says here, it would be interesting to see what excuse he has for that which doesn't apply to all the rest of the PLP at that time).

And they only have until 14:30 on Monday to get all their nominations. AFAIK, only Starmer has enough MPs/MEPs already (and one union in the bag). RBLT will doubtless get these, but we'll see about the rest. Earlier today, Clive Lewis had...a round figure.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:57 pm**

Yeah, I think Cooper carries far too much baggage for the Corbynite membership. She’s the one who should have won the time before last, not the one to win this time. I’d like to see her back in the shadow cabinet though.

Re the Momentumites being the ones doing all the legwork in the constituencies, that doesn’t tally with what I’ve read elsewhere - according to that it’s still the traditional membership putting in the hours and the incomers only show up in sufficient numbers when it’s time for a no-confidence motion or something. The traditional members are still pretty Corbyn-friendly though.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:16 pm**

nekomatic wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:57 pmI’d like to see her back in the shadow cabinet though.

Creasy, also.

Scrutable

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