Scrutable

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:56 am Liz Truss not a fan of the lettuce.

The rest of us aren't fans of increased mortgage repayments... so she can f.ck right off.

Hey now, the increased mortgage payments specifically due to Liz Truss and her astounding idiocy were just a blip - we'll probably eclipse those mortgage rates in the next few weeks and months more generally due to the Tories and their refusal to manage the country properly

If the policy framework had remained more Trussist, likely mortgage payments would be still higher. So I think TopBadger's has a fair reason for disliking her.

But clearly, as you say, now that full-on Truss madness has gone away, the main reasons the UK has the highest inflation in western Europe, as for example in this article, are things due to long term policies, such as Brexit, heavy reliance on gas for energy, and economic rigidities, which are mainly the Tories' fault. Not that Labour (neither Starmer nor Corbyn wings) have anything sensible to say on these matters.

They've recently said something about energy, but the economic rigidities don't look like going flaccid anytime soon

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:37 pm They've recently said something about energy, but the economic rigidities don't look like going flaccid anytime soon

They won’t unless Labour actually get in and enact the plan. Getting off fossil fuels will remove a major source of economic instability and inflation if we can actually do it. Not until it’s actually happened though, I’m hopeful we can make good progress up to 2030 but we’ll still have a lot of fossil fuels in the economy

IvanV wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:35 pm If the policy framework had remained more Trussist, likely mortgage payments would be still higher. So I think TopBadger's has a fair reason for disliking her.

But clearly, as you say, now that full-on Truss madness has gone away, the main reasons the UK has the highest inflation in western Europe, as for example in this article, are things due to long term policies, such as Brexit, heavy reliance on gas for energy, and economic rigidities, which are mainly the Tories' fault. Not that Labour (neither Starmer nor Corbyn wings) have anything sensible to say on these matters.

Which economic rigidities? The article doesn’t really mention any.

Economic rigidities are stuff like:

Never increasing income tax rates
Deciding that debt has to drop quickly
Refusing to borrow for capital investment
Being part of the world's biggest multinational single market is bad, mmkay
Exceptionally slow planning and legislative processes which make capital investment have a very long payoff and which lowers BCRs
Refusing to make significant capital investment
HMT disbelieving that industrial strategies are a good idea
Failing to see back in 2010 that strong investment in renewable energy research and manufacture would be a strong future industry and early entry could strongly support the UK economy in future
Etc

bjn wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:28 am

IvanV wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:35 pm If the policy framework had remained more Trussist, likely mortgage payments would be still higher. So I think TopBadger's has a fair reason for disliking her.

But clearly, as you say, now that full-on Truss madness has gone away, the main reasons the UK has the highest inflation in western Europe, as for example in this article, are things due to long term policies, such as Brexit, heavy reliance on gas for energy, and economic rigidities, which are mainly the Tories' fault. Not that Labour (neither Starmer nor Corbyn wings) have anything sensible to say on these matters.

Which economic rigidities? The article doesn’t really mention any.

It specifically mentions rigidities that discourage British people living in one area from seeking jobs available in another area, when the EU immigrants who were doing them return to the EU. It talks about income disparities in relation to that, but I would say it is more about the housing market, but either way the Tories have done little to address either of these issues.

I did think that Liz Truss's brief premiership had at least demonstrated to everyone that the economic ideas they peddled were dangerous wishful thinking.

But rather like the millenarian cults that sometimes survive the failure of the day of doom to arrive on day they specified, it seems that there are plenty of the party yet whose faith hath constant been. The self-deception they use to justify it to themselves is that it was the blob, the Treasury, the civil service, the establishment, who deliberately pranged the economy to prevent the success of these policies. They seemingly believe there really is a powerful anti-growth alliance, who have to be stopped.

And so we can read stories about Liz Truss stealing the show at the Conservative Party conference, and the members going full-on conspiracy eye-swivel.

Maybe this is just the mirror image of the cult of Jeremy Corbyn, and will continue to damage the Conservatives until they wake up to the fact that this makes them unelectable and purge the Trumpish/Faragiste/BlUeKIPpers from their midst. But given the high rate of support for Trumpism in the US, and numerous other populists around Europe, it makes me worry that actually this is here to stay and cause mischief for a long time.

IvanV wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:30 pm snip
And so we can read stories about Liz Truss stealing the show at the Conservative Party conference, and [url=https://bylinetimes.com/2023/10/02/unle ... anchester/]
snip

“unleash that gas we are sitting on”
is that a deliberate fart gag or a complete ignorance of the concept of the fart gag?
Did one of her writers just hand in his/her notice.
Or did her remaining writers have a laugh after Liz let one go?

I'm more concerned about the truly bizarre conspiracy theories being circulated by senior Tories: Councils deciding how often you can go shopping, rationing access to roads ... WTAF?

JQH wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:17 am I'm more concerned about the truly bizarre conspiracy theories being circulated by senior Tories: Councils deciding how often you can go shopping, rationing access to roads ... WTAF?

They know it's b.llsh.t, they are pinning their hopes on the Uxbridge Factor, that there are enough fuckwits in marginal seats to buy that crap. The terrifying thing is that with the likes of the Sun and the Mail, that may work in some marginals.

We can only hope they scare off the more rational Tory voters.

JQH wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:38 am We can only hope they scare off the more rational Tory voters.

If they have stuck with them so far I doubt many are in any way rational.

Repeal the Equality Act, say Truss's particular group of insanely insane Tories.

We're probably not a million miles from them having uniforms and a slogan about work setting you free.

Oh God !! Someone teach these posh "educated " bastards what mitigate means - it's not the same as militate !!

However, all this talk of "people can't say anything, these days" - I look forward to their proposals to get rid of the libel laws.

cvb wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:29 pm

JQH wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:38 am We can only hope they scare off the more rational Tory voters.

If they have stuck with them so far I doubt many are in any way rational.

They seem to be going after the Reform vote, which according to that dubious poll by the "popular Conservatives" (Truss, Patel, Mogg, Frost, etc) are polling at 10% and might keep the Conservatives out of office. Maybe they think that there isn't any true centre right left for the Conservatives to lose. They laughingly call themselves the centre right.

I was reminded today of how Cameron adopted greenery back in about 2008 to try and "detoxify" the conservative brand. So is what was toxic in 2008 now popular?

Lew Dolby wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:01 pm However, all this talk of "people can't say anything, these days" - I look forward to their proposals to get rid of the libel laws.

When the right talk about freedom of speech, it is code for freedom to be racist, islamophobic, etc. They are not interested in the real problems with our libel laws, which allow rich people to shut critics down.

Lew Dolby wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:01 pm However, all this talk of "people can't say anything, these days" - I look forward to their proposals to get rid of the libel laws.

The Good Law Project raised a complaint against the Conservative Party about the (probably) illegal data scraping that their "See how much tax you are saving" website (which didn't easily allow people to decline cookies).
The Conservative Party responded to the GLP, but won't let the GLP report their response, claiming it's "Confidential" and "the Intellectual property" of the party.
https://goodlawproject.org/update/the-t ... king-down/

IvanV wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:38 pm They seem to be going after the Reform vote, which according to that dubious poll by the "popular Conservatives" (Truss, Patel, Mogg, Frost, etc) are polling at 10% and might keep the Conservatives out of office. Maybe they think that there isn't any true centre right left for the Conservatives to lose. They laughingly call themselves the centre right.

According to a recent YouGov poll, the only demographic Reform has any significant traction with is the over 65s, with rapidly diminishing support in younger cohorts. The under 30s basically don’t care about being mean to the foreigns, the gays and the trans, at least in comparison to all the other more immediate problems in their lives. The Tories are chasing a diminishing voter base by the jump right wards and alienating several generations in the process by sidelining all the issues that they do care about.

Gfamily wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:48 pm

Lew Dolby wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:01 pm However, all this talk of "people can't say anything, these days" - I look forward to their proposals to get rid of the libel laws.

The Good Law Project raised a complaint against the Conservative Party about the (probably) illegal data scraping that their "See how much tax you are saving" website (which didn't easily allow people to decline cookies).
The Conservative Party responded to the GLP, but won't let the GLP report their response, claiming it's "Confidential" and "the Intellectual property" of the party.
https://goodlawproject.org/update/the-t ... king-down/

The f.ck?

bjn wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:18 am

IvanV wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:38 pm They seem to be going after the Reform vote, which according to that dubious poll by the "popular Conservatives" (Truss, Patel, Mogg, Frost, etc) are polling at 10% and might keep the Conservatives out of office. Maybe they think that there isn't any true centre right left for the Conservatives to lose. They laughingly call themselves the centre right.

According to a recent YouGov poll, the only demographic Reform has any significant traction with is the over 65s, with rapidly diminishing support in younger cohorts. The under 30s basically don’t care about being mean to the foreigns, the gays and the trans, at least in comparison to all the other more immediate problems in their lives. The Tories are chasing a diminishing voter base by the jump right wards and alienating several generations in the process by sidelining all the issues that they do care about.

Certainly Reform UK support under aged 35 is low - 3-5% in recent Deltapoll & Omnisis polls - but it is higher in older people: 7-9% in 35 to 54 year olds and 10-15% in 55 to 64 year olds (the sample breakdown means numbers at this level are unreliable). What's remarkable is that support for Labour is 50+% in all cohorts up to 54 year olds, whilst Tory support is 25% or under. The only regions with even moderate Tory support are the South-East and the Midlands. Labour remains ahead in all these areas.

Slightly lower figures on the yougov poll linked below, in answer to the question If there were a general election held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?, Reform got

• 4% under 25s
• 5% 25-49
• 10%, 50 to 64
• 15% for the crumblies

But either way, the under 50s don't seem to have as many c.nts than the boomers or older gen-X folks.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/d ... 0131_W.pdf

Always the mark of a true patriot to make sure that your flag is flying the right way up
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -far-right