Scrutable

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:55 am

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 amThere were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Well, not here. We only set it up last month.

EACL was referring to people here, not here. Basic reading comprehension beyond you on this day of despair?

I think it was a f.cking joke, for god's sake

I reckon it was the great british public that f.cked up.

The bunch of stupid c.nts.

f.ck me!

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:57 am

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:31 am

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

What was so wrong with the manifesto that the struggling working class will get a better deal from the Tories?

Economic damage and chaos not enough for you? Deliberately preventing investment into the UK not a bit a of a give away? The evil at the heart of it all of believing hurting the immigrant working class is the way to help the "British" working class?

Who says satire is dead?

Stephanie wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:00 am I think it was a f.cking joke, for god's sake

Indeed. Reading compy something or other. That.

Stephanie wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:00 am I think it was a f.cking joke, for god's sake

Jokes are not permitted today, did you not get the memo? A country of people in misery while you lot fool around? No thank you.

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:27 am Well, Corbyn obviously has a lot of faults and unpalatable baggage, Momentum are/were blind to these problems and propped him up as leader (simultaneously alienating other factions within the party), many on the center and the right of the Labour party failed to hold their noses and get behind Corbyn regardless once he was firmly ensconced (either for personal reasons or because they don't really like leftist economics), Corbyn's Labour was too Brexity for Remainers but too Remainy for Brexiters, the BBC was massively biased, the Tory media did Tory media things, the Great British Public characteristically failed to assign appropriate weights to the various issues at stake. I think this covers most of the angles.

So anyway I blame Tom Watson.

cvb wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:03 am I reckon it was the great british public that f.cked up.

The bunch of stupid c.nts.

f.ck me!

And all we have to do is replace half of the population of the UK in the next five years with nice thoughtful people and Labour can win again! Yay!

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:57 am

secret squirrel wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:31 am

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

What was so wrong with the manifesto that the struggling working class will get a better deal from the Tories?

See the section on brexit.

Even now, do they not get that the voters roundly and emphatically rejected Corbyn?

The manifesto is the least of your worries. That one's' dead and buried, and a new leader will replace it next time.

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 am All those useless a..eholes who were told outright who they were supporting - a deeply unleasant, racist enabling, anti Europe twunt who will side with anyone against his own country - and supported him anyway. You know who you are.

All those who kept scrabbling to make excuses for his sucking up to all kinds of racists and homophobes, just so long as they agreed with him on something - usually hating the west or Israel. You know who you are.

All those who supported him again, in the leadership challenge, when it was clear he had made no effort to campaign for the Labour party's position, and in so doing, cost Remain the referendum. You know who you are.

All the idiot a..eholes of the chattering classes who were so smug about being "pure" in opposition, rather than pragmatic and with a chance of government. You know who you are.

There were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Look what you've done.

And then think about how it will affect those outside the middle class chattering classes.

EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

Yes, EACLucifer called it correctly.

But as I said before the election, if the problem is that people don't like Corbyn and what he's selling why didn't they turn to the LibDems or Greens rather than Johnson?

Because they like what he's selling that's why. The English are a nation of mean-spirited racists pining for the Empire so they went hook line and sinker for his rhetoric. I understand fully why the Scots and the Irish f.cking hate us. I f.cking hate us.

Ian Lavery has the reason fully in his sights, at least:

Labour Party Chairman Ian Lavery says "the fact we went for a second referendum is the real issue in the Labour Party, it's about a lack of trust", when asked why the party suffered losses in #GE2019

Incidently, do anger and despair modify the effect of alcohol on the human body? I drank half a litre of crap whisky last night and I feel physically ok this morning.

JQH wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am
But as I said before the election, if the problem is that people don't like Corbyn and what he's selling why didn't they turn to the LibDems or Greens rather than Johnson?

Because they like what he's selling that's why. The English are a nation of mean-spirited racists pining for the Empire so they went hook line and sinker for his rhetoric. I understand fully why the Scots and the Irish f.cking hate us. I f.cking hate us.

When she first moved here, my American wife noted that it was nice to be somewhere where people looked passed the colour of your skin.
She soon lost the rose tinted specs and now thinks that the racism in England is worse than the US in many ways

JQH wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am
Yes, EACLucifer called it correctly.

But as I said before the election, if the problem is that people don't like Corbyn and what he's selling why didn't they turn to the LibDems or Greens rather than Johnson?

Because they like what he's selling that's why. The English are a nation of mean-spirited racists pining for the Empire so they went hook line and sinker for his rhetoric. I understand fully why the Scots and the Irish f.cking hate us. I f.cking hate us.

In the south they didn't vote LibDem because of fears it would let Corbyn in. I've not heard anyone say they actually like Johnson, but they were happy to accept his policies instead of what they saw as a genuine risk.

In the north, there seems to be a bit of staying home rather than switching directly to Conservative. Plus switching to the clever Brexit Party spoiler.

We had the dream that people would vote Anti Tory Party, selecting whatever was the best chance in their constituency. What we actually got was people voting Anti Corbynism, even to the extent of the pissed-on voting for the Conservative pissers.

And Swinson turned the LDs into one of those slow motion embarrassments. Good news for everybody she's gone, even her, probably.

I think the Lib Dem position of cancelling A50 if they got a majority was hugely problematic. I've had conversations with Conservative Remainers who didn't want to vote Tory any more. They'd never vote Labour unless it was centrist, and that single policy shift probably put them off voting Lib Dem either. I'd be interested to see some analysis of how that group voted in the end (or didn't turn out, potentially)

GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:17 am

bjn wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:54 pm Mikeh and his f.cking beard.

testify.

Finally, I'm getting noticed around here. About time.

Toynbee telling it like it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ism-brexit

Labour was disastrously, catastrophically bad, an agony to behold. A coterie of Corbynites cared more about gripping power within the party than saving the country by winning the election. The national executive committee, a slate of nodding Corbynite place-persons, disgraced the party with its sectarian decisions. Once it was plain in every poll and focus group that Corbynism was electoral arsenic, they should have propelled him out, but electoral victory was secondary.

Should we laugh or cry at Corbyn’s announcement that he wouldn’t stand for another election? He should have gone before dawn. Any possible or impossible successor will clear out that Len McCluskey clique – Karie Murphy, Seumas Milne, Andrew Murray and others who propped up the old fellow to secure their own power base – with results worse than Michael Foot. Watch them try to divert blame onto “Corbyn-disloyalists”, remainers and ”Blairites”.

It's the remainers' fault so far, apparently, but early days.

I never believed Foot was the worst labour leader, though it's often said. It's weirdly comforting that absolutely nobody can say that any more.

JQH wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am

lpm wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 am

EACLucifer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:02 am All those useless a..eholes who were told outright who they were supporting - a deeply unleasant, racist enabling, anti Europe twunt who will side with anyone against his own country - and supported him anyway. You know who you are.

All those who kept scrabbling to make excuses for his sucking up to all kinds of racists and homophobes, just so long as they agreed with him on something - usually hating the west or Israel. You know who you are.

All those who supported him again, in the leadership challenge, when it was clear he had made no effort to campaign for the Labour party's position, and in so doing, cost Remain the referendum. You know who you are.

All the idiot a..eholes of the chattering classes who were so smug about being "pure" in opposition, rather than pragmatic and with a chance of government. You know who you are.

There were plenty of you here in 2015, and since.

Look what you've done.

And then think about how it will affect those outside the middle class chattering classes.

EACL is absolutely right.

And has always been right about everything to do with Labour.

I'm absolutely furious with people who've expressed any liking for Corbynism. It was a foul movement that produced a sh.t manifesto that would have damaged the poorest and most vulnerable in the country, as well as damaging the rest of us. It was exactly the wrong sort of left wing, sneering at helpful left wing policies because of its devotion to weird 1970s purity.

The struggling working class in the north rejected it. Awful middle class theorists supported it.

Yes, EACLucifer called it correctly.

But as I said before the election, if the problem is that people don't like Corbyn and what he's selling why didn't they turn to the LibDems or Greens rather than Johnson?

Because they like what he's selling that's why. The English are a nation of mean-spirited racists pining for the Empire so they went hook line and sinker for his rhetoric. I understand fully why the Scots and the Irish f.cking hate us. I f.cking hate us.

This ^

And the LDs did look for an alternative for a while, but had their huge and enduring coalition toxicity problem, and the wheels came off their campaign rather spectacularly. Bye, Jo, missing you already.

And the Greens simply aren't a credible option for people who want to vote in an MP, outside Brighton anyway.

My neighbours don't drink at the local
Or have kippers for breakfast like me
The food that they eat smells disgusting
They'd rather drink coffee than tea
It's true that their kids are respectful
They gave me their seat on the bus
But it's just that there's so many of them
That I fear what will become of us
I'm not racist, all I want is
To make things how they used to be
But change is strange and
Nobody's listening to me
I cheered when our side won the Cold War
Spread freedom and peace all around
Now there's folks speaking Russian in Tesco's
It's a shame the wall had to come down
I know some are fleeing from war zones
To keep their young children from harm
But my parents stayed put through the Blitz years
And me? I was sent to a farm
Yeah, the sun shines, but sometimes
I don't feel like this is my country
But to say so? Oh no
I never get no sympathy
Once we ruled over an empire
So it feels like some kind of defeat
To comply with rules drawn up by strangers
And measure in metres not feet
We don't want to go but by Jingo
If we can't be in charge, then we must
But don't be offended, dear neighbour
It's not you: this is all about us
But it's alright, alright
I think I've found a remedy
Yes, it's alright, gonna be alright
It's a full English Brexit for me


(copyright)

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:28 am I think the Lib Dem position of cancelling A50 if they got a majority was hugely problematic. I've had conversations with Conservative Remainers who didn't want to vote Tory any more. They'd never vote Labour unless it was centrist, and that single policy shift probably put them off voting Lib Dem either. I'd be interested to see some analysis of how that group voted in the end (or didn't turn out, potentially)

Im struggling to get why any pro-remain voter would give a sh.t

If the Libdems won a majority then there would be such a shift in opinion that a second referendum would be a pointless formality. And it would be hard to get to the polling station on account of the porcine faecal blizzard chucking down from the skies.

In coalition then the Libdems would have to settle for a second referendum.

Well, if you're struggling to understand, that's your failing rather than anyone else's.

From the BBC report on how Dennis Skinner lost in Bolsover (a post-industrial mining town turned wasteland)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371

Former miner Malcolm Tomlinson, 75, who took part in two strikes, said he voted Conservative and was happy with the result.

This symbolises the final defeat of working class Labour. There will be people who fought at the Battle of Orgreave who yesterday voted for their bitter enemy the Conservatives.

I think, in hindsight, that we can safely say that this is all Bob's fault.