Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:56 pm
At least he'll apologise.El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:40 pm I think, in hindsight, that we can safely say that this is all Bob's fault.
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Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:12 pm
Blog post from Simon Wren-Lewis (Emeritus Professor of Economics and Fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford)
mainly macro: Who to blame for Johnson winning?
tl;dr: Media bias, and Corbyn
mainly macro: Who to blame for Johnson winning?
tl;dr: Media bias, and Corbyn
...while many voted against the media image of Corbyn more than anything else, it has to be said that Corbyn’s past and his failures over the last three years made the media’s job very easy.
We should of course blame the media.
...
I will continue to rage, but not quite as often as I have done since the blog began almost exactly eight years ago. It is time for deeper thought about how we get back to the light and ensure that we never again lapse into a post-truth world.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:13 pm
Nah. He'll apologise for not apologising. Maybe.dyqik wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:56 pmAt least he'll apologise.El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:40 pm I think, in hindsight, that we can safely say that this is all Bob's fault.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:57 pm
JQH wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:27 amIndeed. The problem is the English voters. They want this sh.t. Well they've got it. Trouble is so have the Scots and the Irish and they didn't vote for it. I can see why they hate the English. I hate the f.cking English right now.discovolante wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:28 amOK. We have one non-Tory person on in oooh how long? who people have identified as a good leader. Regardless of Iraq or whatever, people like that are like gold dust. If the only comparison people can make, over and over again, is with Tony Blair, one politician, then it is not just the opposition that is the problem.
English.
Do.
Not.
Want.
This.
Okay?
Please don't blame all of us for 46% of dickheads.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:25 pm
He's clearly talking about English voters that voted for Johnson, and also venting some frustration, so I'm surprised you'd take it so personally.
And JQH is English himself right?
ETA: and posted at about 7:30 this morning when everyone was finding out the results and cross and raging
And JQH is English himself right?
ETA: and posted at about 7:30 this morning when everyone was finding out the results and cross and raging
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:27 pm
Nick Clegg needs to be on the list.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:37 pm
I think it's pretty clearly the fault of everyone over the age of 55.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:40 pm
Well, maybe. Look at the turnout in each age group and that will also tell a story.dyqik wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:37 pm I think it's pretty clearly the fault of everyone over the age of 55.
In 2017, Labour were supported more than the tories in every single employment group except retired people. Labour still lost. That says something too.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:07 pm
A friend on FB is a Corbyn truther and has just posted decrying the right wing media bias as wot lost it.GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am Even now, do they not get that the voters roundly and emphatically rejected Corbyn?
The manifesto is the least of your worries. That one's' dead and buried, and a new leader will replace it next time.
The voters rejected the impression of Corbyn they developed in great part from the received wisdom generates by the right wing press and bias.
This is not factually incorrect but the solution is the problem; Corbyn, were he in reality the Messiah they believe, would still have to go, his reputation is tarnished to dust and is irrevocable.
The faithful will still point to bias and deception and convince themselves that through some as yet unknown technique, Corbyn will be able to finally get his policy message to the voters and bring them into the fold. Have faith. Stay strong.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:32 pm
45 surely. That’s the age where the Tories are the most popular party.dyqik wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:37 pm I think it's pretty clearly the fault of everyone over the age of 55.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:42 pm
I think a really hard message for people who take politics seriously is that being in the right and having good ideas is, at absolute most, equally as important as being popular, and that there is often a trade-off between the two.
People who read and think about the ideas behind policy don't necessarily want to get drawn into an emotional popularity contest, and that's where insincere w.nkers thrive.
This is a big loss for hope. Anecdotally, anger and disillusionment with the political system has really shot up amongst the twenty-somethings I'm friends with. I think things are going to get an awful lot worse before they get better.
People who read and think about the ideas behind policy don't necessarily want to get drawn into an emotional popularity contest, and that's where insincere w.nkers thrive.
This is a big loss for hope. Anecdotally, anger and disillusionment with the political system has really shot up amongst the twenty-somethings I'm friends with. I think things are going to get an awful lot worse before they get better.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:26 pm
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:40 pm
The Olds shouldnt be allowed to vote.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:54 pm
I've genuinely now seen Corbyn people blame the entirety of society rather than him. They say society needs to change and not the labour party. For f.cks sake.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:30 pm
Corbyn needs to f.ck off and f.ck off right now, and take those 4 M c.nts with him. Labour have used temporary leaders before, Harman did it for a while.
The only reason for this "period of reflection" is to rewrite history so that Starmer and Thornberry get the blame (already well under way) and for Momentum to increase their stranglehold on the constituencies. And the Corbynites and Momentum control the NRC. Watch out for some clever procedural innovations on how constituency parties operate during this period of pretend reflection.
Come on Starmer, f.cking grow some backbone and challenge.
The only reason for this "period of reflection" is to rewrite history so that Starmer and Thornberry get the blame (already well under way) and for Momentum to increase their stranglehold on the constituencies. And the Corbynites and Momentum control the NRC. Watch out for some clever procedural innovations on how constituency parties operate during this period of pretend reflection.
Come on Starmer, f.cking grow some backbone and challenge.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:35 pm
Well done, what an intelligent solution.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:41 pm
I wonder how the Corbyn faithful explain Trump's victory when the dreaded MSM where strongly against him as wellplebian wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:07 pmA friend on FB is a Corbyn truther and has just posted decrying the right wing media bias as wot lost it.GeenDienst wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am Even now, do they not get that the voters roundly and emphatically rejected Corbyn?
The manifesto is the least of your worries. That one's' dead and buried, and a new leader will replace it next time.
The voters rejected the impression of Corbyn they developed in great part from the received wisdom generates by the right wing press and bias.
This is not factually incorrect but the solution is the problem; Corbyn, were he in reality the Messiah they believe, would still have to go, his reputation is tarnished to dust and is irrevocable.
The faithful will still point to bias and deception and convince themselves that through some as yet unknown technique, Corbyn will be able to finally get his policy message to the voters and bring them into the fold. Have faith. Stay strong.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:42 pm
He's right, clear us crumblies and coffin dodgers the f.ck out. We need the Logan's Run solution.
Now thinking of Jenny Agutter...
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:52 pm
Correct, I am English. I believe it is still permissable to hate what your fellow nationals have done, though no doubt Johnson is working on that.Stephanie wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:25 pm He's clearly talking about English voters that voted for Johnson, and also venting some frustration, so I'm surprised you'd take it so personally.
And JQH is English himself right?
ETA: and posted at about 7:30 this morning when everyone was finding out the results and cross and raging
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:56 pm
Keep your anger here in mind next time you feel inclined to blame "boomers" for this sh.t storm.P.J. Denyer wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:57 pm
English.
Do.
Not.
Want.
This.
Okay?
Please don't blame all of us for 46% of dickheads.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:11 pm
Yes, its sarcastic but it gets to the nub of the problem. Have to get the young involved in all their numbers and do what we can to make the olds comfortable with progressive values. Also foreign interferemce.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:17 pm
So in about 20 years, when the majority of my generation and older have karked it, you might get progressive politics again. Unless of course the current youthful idealists get old and cynical.dyqik wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:37 pm I think it's pretty clearly the fault of everyone over the age of 55.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:33 pm
Absolutely. And right there with youJQH wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:52 pmCorrect, I am English. I believe it is still permissable to hate what your fellow nationals have done, though no doubt Johnson is working on that.Stephanie wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:25 pm He's clearly talking about English voters that voted for Johnson, and also venting some frustration, so I'm surprised you'd take it so personally.
And JQH is English himself right?
ETA: and posted at about 7:30 this morning when everyone was finding out the results and cross and raging
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:18 pm
That never happens.JQH wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:17 pm Unless of course the current youthful idealists get old and cynical.
Re: Whose fault will it be?
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:44 pm
If you are not allowed to vote for the first 18 years of your life perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to vote in the last 18 either.