Getting Brexit done

[Martin Y]

I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.

We are harbouring counterrevolutionary thoughts.
We want the revolution to fail.
We will do our worst to try to cause the revolution to fail.
We want what's worst for the people.
We are enemies of the people.
Traitors who should be shot.

[El Pollo Diablo]

I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.

[Martin Y]

I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.

On balance I'd rather my kids got decent jobs, pensions, health service etc rather than be right about the decline I believe we're eagerly driving towards.

I have considered "I told you so" and "Well, I didn't vote for it" tee shirts as an emergency income stream.

[El Pollo Diablo]

I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.

On balance I'd rather my kids got decent jobs, pensions, health service etc rather than be right about the decline I believe we're eagerly driving towards.

So would I. I think the best path to that is for Brexit to be a failure and for us to rejoin the EU at some point down the line.

[JQH]

I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.

No. I'm expecting Brexit to be a disaster, mainly because the people who are trying to implement it have a world view where Britain is still an Imperial power with a robust, world-leading economy who people will flock to trade with, rather than a small service economy with little manufacturing, little agriculture, a reasonable financial base (who can fairly easily move elsewhere) and increasingly little influence on the global stage.

Nobody who wants to implement Brexit that I've met or seen interviewed believes Britain is still an imperial power. This is honestly a remainer cariacature that doesn't tie up with reality.

The UK is a large economy with low levels of unemployment and a relatively stable and trusted legal system and educational system though.

Well, there was that tw.t at Farage's Harrogate meeting who said he wanted to go back to being the British Empire. Then there's the constant banging on about WW2 and Dunkirk - when Britain allegedly "stood alone" but in fact controlled a quarter of the world's resources because Empire.

Unemployment may be low but many jobs are low pay zero hour jobbies.

And the Dear Leader PM has plans for the legal system.

[GeenDienst]

All of the leavers' mood music is that Britain is a great power waiting to be unshackled from the millstone of the EU. To claim that the leaders don't believe that Britain is some sort of great imperial power is dim or disingenuous. Whatever they believe deep in their shrivelled little souls, they have pandered constantly to those who do.

[sheldrake]

All of the leavers' mood music is that Britain is a great power waiting to be unshackled from the millstone of the EU. To claim that the leaders don't believe that Britain is some sort of great imperial power is dim or disingenuous.

No, this really is in your imagination. Really.

[Opti]

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.

[Herainestold]

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.

They are going to get a rude awakening. The imperialist days are long gone and they are not coming back. Britain out of the SM without a functioning WTO will be truly alone, worse than Dunkirk.

[JQH]

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.

They are going to get a rude awakening. The imperialist days are long gone and they are not coming back. Britain out of the SM without a functioning WTO will be truly alone, worse than Dunkirk.

Preaching to the choir mate.

[Bird on a Fire]

And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.

[Herainestold]

And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.

It will be now.

[Bird on a Fire]

And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.

It will be now.

We'll see. A lot of countries still want to maintain a close relationship, at least to the extent that it's in their interest.

The UK (or what remains of it) is certainly going to lose a lot of clout, though. Perhaps not alone, but less important.

[Opti]

Nationalism is the death of countries. History shows this. Narcissistic preening always ends in tears.

I've run away. I'm scared. So f.cking what. I can't be there, it's not good for my mental health. I'll fight tooth and nail to not have to come back.

[Martin Y]

Mind you, most of the French troops rescued from Dunkirk sailed directly home again not long after when France fell.

But yes, the "stood alone" stuff is tedious. We were only left standing alone* because having joined forces with our French allies to declare war on Germany in defence of our Polish allies we got beaten and kicked off the continent. We didn't choose to stand alone.

*Alone except for the world's biggest empire plus the Free poles etc, and with our coasts defended only by the world's biggest navy.

OTOH, I think it's unhelpful to accuse Brexiteers of imagining we still have, or could regain, an empire. It's not literally what all but the maddest of them think. But there is a sad lack of perspective in thinking that we can still be some kind of first rate power, perhaps based on our having been, until Brexit, the world's 5th biggest economy. It's like being the 5th biggest planet, when the top 3 are Jupiter-sized and we just emerged from one of them like Venus as was weirdly claimed.

[GeenDienst]

Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.

[Herainestold]

And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.

It will be now.

We'll see. A lot of countries still want to maintain a close relationship, at least to the extent that it's in their interest.

The UK (or what remains of it) is certainly going to lose a lot of clout, though. Perhaps not alone, but less important.

Trade will still go on. Expect more British companies to go under due to foreign competition.

[Herainestold]

Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.

Might be a Hong Kong type situation.

[Opti]

Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.

Might be a Hong Kong type situation.

How? The arrangements are massively different.

[Herainestold]

Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.

Might be a Hong Kong type situation.

How? The arrangements are massively different.

Not part of the EU, abandoned by Britain, Spain asserts what she perceives to be her rights over Spanish sovereign territory, unfairly annexxed by imperialists hundreds of years ago. It could be bl..dy.

[sheldrake]

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.

I think you're confusing a wish for independence with supremacism. Not the same thing.

[veravista]

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.

I think you're confusing a wish for independence with supremacism. Not the same thing.

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.

[sheldrake]

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.

The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.

[Opti]

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.

The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.

f.ck me sheldrake, that is so, so beneath even you. Have you lost your touch? You can do so much better than this. Insipid.

[dyqik]

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.

The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.

Well, no. Only the very stupid think that anyone at all would offer that.