UK Track and Trace Apps
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:49 pm
[*]It looks like the new Track and Trace app is being released on Thursday. Will you be using it? If not, why not?
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Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:07 pm
I've got the Scotland one which was released a few weeks ago, mainly out of nosiness to see how many other people have it tbh...1,152,435 so far.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:43 pm
Pretty sure I’ll get it installed. Good that we didn’t spaff loads of money up the wall trying to develop one and went straight to the Google/Apple one.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:57 am
I’m still using an iPhone 6 which is stuck on iOS 12 so I can’t, but according to the figures I found 80% of active iPhones were running 13 as of June.
It’d be useful to know how that breaks down by demographics in the UK though, as I’d guess the more vulnerable people are the more likely they are to use an older or not updated phone. I don’t expect that data’s available.
I also went looking for a good assessment of how the privacy angle works, in an attempt to offer a rabid response to one of the inevitable ‘well I’m not trusting Apple and Google with my data’ tweets last night, but didn’t readily find one, so if anyone else does then please share.
It’d be useful to know how that breaks down by demographics in the UK though, as I’d guess the more vulnerable people are the more likely they are to use an older or not updated phone. I don’t expect that data’s available.
I also went looking for a good assessment of how the privacy angle works, in an attempt to offer a rabid response to one of the inevitable ‘well I’m not trusting Apple and Google with my data’ tweets last night, but didn’t readily find one, so if anyone else does then please share.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:06 am
My very much less than state of the art Android is able to run it. And about half of UK mobile phones are Android, so that seems fairly promising.nekomatic wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:57 am I’m still using an iPhone 6 which is stuck on iOS 12 so I can’t, but according to the figures I found 80% of active iPhones were running 13 as of June.
It’d be useful to know how that breaks down by demographics in the UK though, as I’d guess the more vulnerable people are the more likely they are to use an older or not updated phone. I don’t expect that data’s available.
I also went looking for a good assessment of how the privacy angle works, in an attempt to offer a rabid response to one of the inevitable ‘well I’m not trusting Apple and Google with my data’ tweets last night, but didn’t readily find one, so if anyone else does then please share.
I have installed it.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am
Seeing a bit of this sort of thing on the socials this morning:
Anyone downloading the NHS tracing app? It'll be keeping a log on government owned servers of where you've been and who you've been in contact with. I think I'll pass.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:41 am
1,170,189 so far this morning. I wonder if the England and Wales one released yesterday will boost registration because it reminds people to do it, or slow it down because people will get all worried about the shitness of the England and Wales one and/or get exposed to more anti-government tracking stuff.discovolante wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:07 pm I've got the Scotland one which was released a few weeks ago, mainly out of nosiness to see how many other people have it tbh...1,152,435 so far.
I forgot to note the exact figure the Scotland one reached after the first day of release - it was over 600,000, so I'm not sure of the exact uptake rate but it seems to have been somewhere around 40-45k a day, I think. Roughly.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:55 am
They didn't read the privacy notice properly* if they think that.badger wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am Seeing a bit of this sort of thing on the socials this morning:
Anyone downloading the NHS tracing app? It'll be keeping a log on government owned servers of where you've been and who you've been in contact with. I think I'll pass.
It's extremely clear that it's not keeping any record of who you are, at all.
*OK, almost certainly they didn't look at it at all.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:25 am
Anyone seen the data behind claims in the Times that there is 1/3 false positive contacts because of Bluetooth issues?
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:29 am
If it's using the Apple/Google API designed specifically for this, which it is, then it's decentralised, because the UK centralised app didn't work (and Apple/Google introduced the API to allow the decentralised one to work).
Your phone basically sends out random nonsense by Bluetooth and listens for random nonsense from other phones. The past two weeks of random nonsense is recorded along with the the strength at which the Bluetooth signal arrived (I think). If you get a positive covid test then you tell the app and it uploads the past two weeks of nonsense which your phone has been sending to a server.
Everyone's app can then periodically download any nonsense which is known to come from the phone of someone with a positive covid test and check the nonsense it has received against the list. If yes, then the user gets a message about potential exposure.
It counts as decentralised because each phone downloads the list of covid-positive nonsense and checks for itself if it has been exposed to any.
Location information needs to be enabled to allow Bluetooth to work, at least on android, but location data isn't shared. No personally identifying information is shared.
Your phone basically sends out random nonsense by Bluetooth and listens for random nonsense from other phones. The past two weeks of random nonsense is recorded along with the the strength at which the Bluetooth signal arrived (I think). If you get a positive covid test then you tell the app and it uploads the past two weeks of nonsense which your phone has been sending to a server.
Everyone's app can then periodically download any nonsense which is known to come from the phone of someone with a positive covid test and check the nonsense it has received against the list. If yes, then the user gets a message about potential exposure.
It counts as decentralised because each phone downloads the list of covid-positive nonsense and checks for itself if it has been exposed to any.
Location information needs to be enabled to allow Bluetooth to work, at least on android, but location data isn't shared. No personally identifying information is shared.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:31 am
Like what happened on the Isle of Wight with the UK centralised app that the Bluetooth signal was strong enough between neighbouring houses that it counted as a contact?TAFKAsoveda wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:25 am Anyone seen the data behind claims in the Times that there is 1/3 false positive contacts because of Bluetooth issues?
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:46 am
Doesn't appear to be in the app store for my phone and googling just gets news stories about the app rather than the app itself.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:18 pm
Oh god yes. They even later claimed to fill in bogus names on T&T registers at pubs, because they think they'll get asked to isolate unnecessarily and then face a massive fine if they don't. The stupid, it burns etc. One of Boris' many rule breakers, I guess.bagpuss wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:55 amThey didn't read the privacy notice properly* if they think that.badger wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am Seeing a bit of this sort of thing on the socials this morning:
Anyone downloading the NHS tracing app? It'll be keeping a log on government owned servers of where you've been and who you've been in contact with. I think I'll pass.
It's extremely clear that it's not keeping any record of who you are, at all.
*OK, almost certainly they didn't look at it at all.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:19 pm
Nope
I don't own a smart phone
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:20 pm
Yep, quite a nice overview here https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-cov ... ct-tracingshpalman wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:29 am If it's using the Apple/Google API designed specifically for this, which it is, then it's decentralised, because the UK centralised app didn't work (and Apple/Google introduced the API to allow the decentralised one to work).
Your phone basically sends out random nonsense by Bluetooth and listens for random nonsense from other phones. The past two weeks of random nonsense is recorded along with the the strength at which the Bluetooth signal arrived (I think). If you get a positive covid test then you tell the app and it uploads the past two weeks of nonsense which your phone has been sending to a server.
Everyone's app can then periodically download any nonsense which is known to come from the phone of someone with a positive covid test and check the nonsense it has received against the list. If yes, then the user gets a message about potential exposure.
It counts as decentralised because each phone downloads the list of covid-positive nonsense and checks for itself if it has been exposed to any.
Location information needs to be enabled to allow Bluetooth to work, at least on android, but location data isn't shared. No personally identifying information is shared.
“All the data that could directly identify you is held on your phone and not shared anywhere else.”
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:33 pm
I basically learnt about it from 3Blue1Brown
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:55 pm
Will using other blue tooth functions on my phone reduce the effectiveness of the App? I nearly always have my phone connected to my bluetooth headphones.
Anecdotally, I was out today and the connection between the phone and headphones seemed a lot poorer than normal, but my phone has been being quite rubbish recently so could be anything.
Anecdotally, I was out today and the connection between the phone and headphones seemed a lot poorer than normal, but my phone has been being quite rubbish recently so could be anything.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:03 pm
Hmmmm, interesting thought. I didn't download the app till after my run this morning but I'm doing a loooooong run on Saturday so if it starts interfering with my headphones, I'll definitely notice then.TheScientificHippy wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:55 pm Will using other blue tooth functions on my phone reduce the effectiveness of the App? I nearly always have my phone connected to my bluetooth headphones.
Anecdotally, I was out today and the connection between the phone and headphones seemed a lot poorer than normal, but my phone has been being quite rubbish recently so could be anything.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:23 pm
Thanks, shared on Twitterbadger wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:20 pmYep, quite a nice overview here https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-cov ... ct-tracingshpalman wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:29 am If it's using the Apple/Google API designed specifically for this, which it is, then it's decentralised, because the UK centralised app didn't work (and Apple/Google introduced the API to allow the decentralised one to work).
Your phone basically sends out random nonsense by Bluetooth and listens for random nonsense from other phones. The past two weeks of random nonsense is recorded along with the the strength at which the Bluetooth signal arrived (I think). If you get a positive covid test then you tell the app and it uploads the past two weeks of nonsense which your phone has been sending to a server.
Everyone's app can then periodically download any nonsense which is known to come from the phone of someone with a positive covid test and check the nonsense it has received against the list. If yes, then the user gets a message about potential exposure.
It counts as decentralised because each phone downloads the list of covid-positive nonsense and checks for itself if it has been exposed to any.
Location information needs to be enabled to allow Bluetooth to work, at least on android, but location data isn't shared. No personally identifying information is shared.
“All the data that could directly identify you is held on your phone and not shared anywhere else.”
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:30 pm
Me neither.
There is one on the house, bought for joint use, but I don't get on with it - sodding thing just doesn't do what I tell it to and I hate touch screens. So I have the old dumb phone wot had been my work one I defibrillated or whatever it is you do...
Dunno what The Bread Goddess is reckoning on doing, but she's still intent on beng as anti-social as possible...
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:53 pm
I mentioned it to Mrs Grumble but she hadn’t heard of it before I told her tonight. I’m not sure we’re going to get enough people using it.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:59 pm
There was some complaining on That There Twitter earlier from people who only have an iPhone 6 or something and how this was the evil Tories plotting to force poor people to buy a new iPhone, then dunk on "chavs who spaff all their money up the wall on a new iPhone".
It was pointed out that (a) a lot of people (circa 20% of the UK adult population; I was surprised it was that high tbh) don't have a smartphone at all, whether for cost or disability reasons or just because their life is complete without one, and (b) a reconditioned Android phone can be had for less than £40. Several iPhone users seemed to regard the latter suggestion as akin to telling a hungry vegan Muslim that there's plenty of pork chops on the grill.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:13 pm
Up to 1,204,453 today now, that's over 50k this morning so maybe the England and Wales one has made a difference to uptake of the Scotland one?discovolante wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:41 am1,170,189 so far this morning. I wonder if the England and Wales one released yesterday will boost registration because it reminds people to do it, or slow it down because people will get all worried about the shitness of the England and Wales one and/or get exposed to more anti-government tracking stuff.discovolante wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:07 pm I've got the Scotland one which was released a few weeks ago, mainly out of nosiness to see how many other people have it tbh...1,152,435 so far.
I forgot to note the exact figure the Scotland one reached after the first day of release - it was over 600,000, so I'm not sure of the exact uptake rate but it seems to have been somewhere around 40-45k a day, I think. Roughly.
I have no idea how many cases it has tracked though, I will need to look into that.
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:47 pm
Just had a beer with a mate* who has downloaded the app and he reckons it won't work on Huawei phones. Can't be right, surely.
* He is very tech savvy BTW, not a conspiracy nut job
* He is very tech savvy BTW, not a conspiracy nut job
Re: UK Track and Trace App
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:56 pm
Ah, he could be right. The US is blocking Huawei from Android updates, which is going to backfire as they're going to make their own OS and with the backing of the PLA (a colleague did an internship with them in Shanghai and said it's well known there as well as here) that OS will take offveravista wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:47 pm Just had a beer with a mate* who has downloaded the app and he reckons it won't work on Huawei phones. Can't be right, surely.
* He is very tech savvy BTW, not a conspiracy nut job